UBW Anime - ufotable's virtue is in a state of quantum uncertainty

[Trubo]

I still disagree that Saber is thinking about life not as a king, since shirou isnt thinking about life if he was a baker or whatever.

The conflict between shirou is the difference between what he wanted to achieve and what he actually did achieve, and I think thats what saber is thinking about too.

Then why bother to show happy girl Saber and cold king Saber?

[You]

I still disagree that Saber is thinking about life not as a king, since shirou isnt thinking about life if he was a baker or whatever..

That'd be Ciel.

[Tobias]

Then why bother to show happy girl Saber and cold king Saber?

I think to much is made out of the new outfit. Fate calls Avalon the image of the dream that saber had, a paradise she couldn't reach.

now with that in mind, if I wanted to draw a picture highlighting the difference between what saber wanted and she actually got, what I would have came up with and what ufo actually did would have been almost identical.

see how it fits together? Shirou is struggling with wanting to be a super hero and the reality of ended up archer. Saber is facing a similar existential crisis. further, saber is on both sides of the argument because her story in fate actually is both. Hang with me here.

saber's dream: become a perfect King and make everyone happy.

shirou's dream: people an ally of justice and make everyone happy.

now saber on the other side of the coin

saber's reality, and it's solution: use the holy grail and erase my attempt to become a perfect king

archer'a reality and its solution: kill shirou and erase my attempt to become an ally of justice.

so in my book the idea saber is randomly wool gathering about what life would be like as a baker or as a shepherdess just does not hold up. Because that's very notably nothing like what shirou is thinking about.

[Elthanes]

Both means the two paths that Saber could've taken and considered this episode: living as a happy girl or saving Britain for a time as its King. Neither one is wrong; living happily is an excellent life decision, while saving a country is an admiral achievement.

So no, UTW just cut away some of her focus.

Are you basing that on the japanese text or your opinion?

[Rafflesiac]

Are you basing that on the japanese text or your opinion?

How I viewed the episode.

[Inuhanyou]

I had the same viewpoint about it being an alternate lifestyle. Tobi, why is it that you cant accept the possibility?

[Tobias]

Well, as an abstract, I rather like the idea. At the least I have nothing against with it.

to me though, it just doesn't fit that scene. The whole thing they are doing there is mirroring how similar saber is to both archer and shirou. Neither archer and shirou are thinking about life as a chef or something, so it doesn't make sense saber is.

Archer is thinking about straight up killing himself, twice, odd as that sounds, and shirou is trying to decide if what he now knows he will have to face means his ideal was wrong.

(That's actually another parallel between them because like shirou, saber was actually told what was going to happen to her and she decided to do it anyway, but that's not quite as relevant to the scene)

anyway, it's not that I hate the idea, and I am pretty sure it's not some errant outgrowth of me being a saberphile, it's just my read of the themes ufo was trying to convey don't fit with it being some kind of alternate lifestyle.

EDIT: doesn't hurt that the argument for it being an alternate lifestyle is actually rather thin. It seems to boil down to mostly "saber has different clothes".

which...could have other reasons. Hell I am pretty sure they were just looking for an excuse to design saber some new Avalon clothes so they could start the next generation of Avalon figmas and what not.

[John D. Pliskin]

For the record, I personally think Tobias's viewpoint is the most sensical here, considering how purposefully the anime is showing parallels between Archer/Shirou and Saber. Heck, I even quoted his point and made it a blog entry. :P

Just going back to the question I raised in my last post, because I need things spelled out to me sometimes-- the UTW subs, the ones emphasizing Archer/Shirou and their dreams as the subject(s) rather than Saber, are the most correct ones in the context of the Saber monologue, right? Or do the Crunchyroll subs somehow make more sense in a way I'm not seeing?

[Trubo]

snip

now with that in mind, if I wanted to draw a picture highlighting the difference between what saber wanted and she actually got, what I would have came up with and what ufo actually did would have been almost identical.

snip

But Saber didn't originally want to be a happy girl in girly clothing. She wanted to be a just and fair king beloved by all, leading a realm in peace, so I don't get how her pictured dress shows this.

[Tobias]

Again, fate describes Avalon as the sum of saber's dream. And as far as I can tell, that vision we are seeing is saber in Avalon except she has a mildly different dress.

[John D. Pliskin]

But Saber didn't originally want to be a happy girl in girly clothing. She wanted to be a just and fair king beloved by all, leading a realm in peace, so I don't get how her pictured dress shows this.

Because JUSTIFIED REASON FOR A NEW SABER FIGURE that's why.

[Tobias]

here, I will save you the trouble of citation needing me on the whole "avalon is the symbol of saber's wish" thing

That which is released and scattered before her is the holy sword's sheath.

No one knows what kind of a divine mystery it is made from, but the sheath repels all light emitted by Ea.
No. It goes beyond the level of "defending".

It is complete isolation.
The barrier of fairyland that keeps out all filth from the outside lands. A complete world separate from this one that can never be reached.
As Saber is protected by the sheath of the holy sword, she is blocked off from all matter in this world.
The greatest protection in this world.
The greatest that cannot be infringed by anything not even by the five sorceries.



For that reason, the sheath is named Avalon, All is a Distant Utopia.
The place where King Arthur is said to have gone after his death. The utopia the king dreamed of that will never be reached.

[ksho]

For the love of god no!...Goddamnit Third Fang

And what's wrong with that?

Nasu obviously got the inspiration for Archer's sword spamming/manipulation from Chinese Wuxia...and one of the advanced levels of that skill is sword surfing.

Unlike Gil who can just shoot them in a straight line (making it awkward), it's the natural progression for someone with Archer's abilities.

[GhostDIGIT]

Please no.

[ksho]

Please no.

The weight of thousands of years of Chinese mythology shall not be denied!

You will be Assimilated. Resistance is Futile.

[Trubo]

snip

For that reason, the sheath is named Avalon, All is a Distant Utopia.
The place where King Arthur is said to have gone after his death. The utopia the king dreamed of that will never be reached.

Okay, where in that says Avalon = wearing a nice dress and lazing the day away?

[lethum]

Please no.

You can't- handle the truth, it seems.

[GhostDIGIT]

I can handle the truth! I just can't handle the lies! ;_;

[Tobias]

Okay, where in that says Avalon = wearing a nice dress and lazing the day away?

...what exactly are you trying to argue?

EXIT: lethum, you, Ksho, and ghost are getting pretty close to just shit posting.

[Trubo]

...what exactly are you trying to argue?

EXIT: lethum, you, Ksho, and ghost are getting pretty close to just shit posting.

If the dual-Saber thing was supposed show what she wanted (I'm taking this to be the nice dress Saber) and what she got (armored Saber), why is one of the Sabers wearing a nice dress? You proceeded to say that it embodied her vision of Avalon, and I'm asking what information presented depicts this in any fashion?