sudou's handling of these movies direction has been subpar to me, i'd rather they get someone else for other possible projects after HF 3. Of course that itself can be in the unpopular opinions thread
Also, someone mentioned it above, but Kaijura's insistence on not using the VN BGM in any fashion is killing me. Her sound has become so bog standard that it all blends together into nothing.
If there isnt atleast an emiya remix in the next movie its gonna dock points for me
Last edited by Inuhanyou; October 26th, 2019 at 12:23 PM.
At this point though, he's probably the best option left within Ufotable. People with a more proven resume like Ei Aoki or Hirao have left the studio long ago and so far, he's proven to be able to handle the directing role far better compared to the likes of Miura or Sotozaki.
There is like 5 or so directors who are better than Aoki at the studio, Don't think he could have handled it better, Hirao is different matter.Originally Posted by GarlandGreene
That's debatable, at the moment none of them have his proven track record though.
He didn't direct a decent show since he left Ufo and his storyboards pales in comparison to Shirai or Suhara.
Well no reason to speculate but adapting HF into 3 movies is a hard thing and Sudo being a fan of the route does help even if he cuts some scenes that people care about.
I'm not sure Aoki has any notable directorial talent that puts him as among the best talent when he hadn't managed to really make a good directorial output ever since he had left Ufotable. Not to say he's awful, far from it, but its clear that he's not an irreplaceable talent and a lot of the people currently in Ufotable have shown better capability in their work.
Speaking as someone who's not really a fan of the route as a whole, I think that Sudo did a great job with the framework he had and the goal he has in mind for what the movies are meant to be. There was always going to be a need for cuts and changes (esp. since the movies are this hybrid of different things and also because they don't allow for enough time to adapt everything) and so far, I think a lot of those cuts are understandable and help streamline the story better so that it manages to move along as well as work as three films.
It's something that I wish Miura had managed to do when adapting UBW, since a lot of the show could have used more streamlining and changes than what we got, but that's a separate thing.
From my perspective, I think that while Kaijura is incredibly talented and her overall work had been among the best the industry has to offer, her specific work when it comes to Fate had been probably her least outstanding. I was okay with HF's OST until I heard what she had for Demon Slayer and Case Files this year and it made me really want some of that and less of Zero's sound (then again, Demon Slayer wasn't her alone, so that might have played a huge part in that as well). I think that while she does manage to differentiate how her music sounds like most of the time, HF falls the most into the criticism of it sounding too similar to a lot of her prior work. It does fit the movies and the scenes they play in, so I guess if it works it works, but yeah.
I'm not really that heart broken about her choosing not to do any remixes, since I did figure out when she was on board for the movie series that it was going to sound a lot like Zero did and my peace with it, but also because I never really thought that the OG/RN VN track was the best out of what we got (probably will be an unpopular opinion, but I still think Kawai's work is at the top for best FSN music). I would guess if there is going to be any remix, EMIYA would have to be it, but I would also not be surprised if Kaijura just does something different and does zero remixes during Nine Bullet Revolver and continues with her own thing. Which I'm sure will fit the scene very well and be in tune with the rest of the movie, if it does happen.
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On Deamon Slayer she only did 5 tracks that was only used in the first 2 episodes, Shiina did the rest.
It must be a me thing where all of her tracks are just incredibly lackluster. Like, I've never seen a composer whose tracks just sound pretty much the same, throughout all of their works. And I've never heard a track from her that made me go, "Huh, not bad."
Where's the UBW guy who did the VN remixes and Mahoyo soundtrack. Why didn't they get him? I wanna hear a Trespassing remix, goddammit.
Well that explains it! lol, god damn, and here I thought she was doing equal work on the show, turns out it was just bare minimum and Shiina deserves all the credit for Demon Slayer sounding as good as it did.
You are thinking of Hideyuki Fukasawa, and yeah, he's also pretty good, though I would say Mahoyo > UBW TV in terms of overall quality (even though from what I recall, he composed the UBW OST in a manner that made it supposedly more fitting to be used for the TV show, I don't recall the exact explanation).
On Kaijura, I don't think having her own "sound" is inherently bad, but after a while you hear enough out of what she did and think "you hear one OST of her's, you heard them all", even though if you did sit down and listen to everything she did there is probably enough variety in there, just the really same-y stuff sticks out the most. I like her stuff well enough, and it does fit where it should, so I'm usually fine with it.
Then again, I would take a hundred Kaijura's tracks over one Sawano, so maybe I just have higher tolerance for her music.
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For some reason listening to the majority of Fukusawa's tracks for ufoUBW actively upset me. I can't put my hand on why, but I get a mixed feeling of boredom and unpleasentness. All I can endure his VN remixes there and the Archer theme and Gil themes.
His work on Mahoyo, Garden of Avalon, and his remixes for the RN release are a bliss to my ears. I can listen to Five, Day of Camlann and his Unite track in Realta Nua for days straight without getting bored.
And considering how he's handling the Camelot movies, they're sure to sound like GoA, so I'm definitely looking forward to that as well.
His ufoUBW work though... yikes. I rarely ever get such a negative feeling towards the work of a composer I like.
As opposed to that, all of Kajiura work sound amazing to me. I like every single track she made for Zero and HF and her KnK work is utterly brilliant for me.
I'd take her over Fukusawa for a F/SN adaptation any day of the week.
Miura did the scenes first, showed them to him and he composed the music according to the visuals he was seeing.
Last edited by Astroprogs; October 26th, 2019 at 04:01 PM.
KnK Kajiura is top tier, I don't think there is doubt about that. It's the stuff she did after that I find really not up to par.
That said, I would honestly prefer if the end of her Fate work would be with HF3. A hypothetical ufoFate adaptation is better served by at least not sounding like it is Zero again.
Ah, right. I do remember someone explaining that was how the music came to be for UBW TV, and how it was meant to fit more in line with the show.
On Fukusawa's work, I'm largely in agreement with what you said in that I found everything aside from his work on UBW to be really good to great, though I don't exactly share the same level of distaste towards what he ended up putting for the TV series. If I had to say what my overall impressions had been after listening to what he did for the show, it would be indifference. Outside of a few pieces, I found nothing particularly stands out and most of it was pretty forgettable. Which was really weird to think about once I instantly remember tracks from Mahoyo and the RN remix he did, and still enjoy going back to them, but somehow he didn't put his best foot when it came to UBW I felt.
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I know people are holding Shirai in high esteem due to KnY's episode 19 (And the Shirou vs Gil episode to a lesser extent) but to be frank, his storyboarding and directing style doesn't really go further than "flashy action sequences that's all style and little substance" which is essentially what Miura is all about. I wish we could have gotten at least another Fate/Nasuverse work adaptation outside of KnK that's helmed by Hirao or even Tetsuya Takeuchi before they left but hey, it is what it is.
@Astroprogs
Entirely agree with you on that, as much as Kajiura's battle BGM have become pretty much interchangeable between any of her works at this point, her use of motifs and ability to give scenes a certain distinct atmosphere elevates her soundtracks above the likes of Go Shiina and Fukasawa whose compositions (as far as anime goes) all sound really forgettable and generic.
That method is probably why Fukasawa's work sounds bad/forgetable in ufoUBW. He wasn't following his own rythm, he was following Miura's. This is not how you get a composer to show his best. This is you drawing two lines and telling him to make the best OST possible, as long as he remains between them. It's limiting.
But yeah, and this is just my personal preference, Fukasawa even at his best, Kajiura's run-of-the-mill standard stuff still sounds better to me. I enjoy Fukasawa, but I'm utterly in a trance when listening to Kajiura. Something in her work just flips a switch in me.
My feelings exactly on kajiuras HF performance.
Shirai has a lot of range and is basically what Hirao was now and the closest person to him and i held him in high regard way before KNY 19, from his debut in UBW 5 till now he always impress.
also Takeuchi rarely direct and was never at ufo btw but was always a freelancer.
Edit:Sakugablog quote about his work in KNY
honestly saying his style all style is just wrong especially when we are talking about Aoki who love POV shots for no reasonSince this piece is already too long as it is, I’ll spare you a full profile in his career. So instead, let’s keep it as simple as possible: Shirai is ufotable. Quite literally. While his origins lay elsewhere and his experience at the studio isn’t as extensive as others, very few individuals if any at all have managed to absorb the versatility that defines ufotable; let’s not forget that, while they’re not at the same level, the studio is only behind KyoAni when it comes to in-house, multi-department prowess. Having grown in that kind of environment, Shirai is a good animator, qualified supervisor, capable of drawing art designs, and honestly, he’s probably a good cook as well. That man’s got everything.As you’d expect with someone that talented, Shirai’s previous appearances in Demon Slayer had already been among the best moments in the show. Though he only storyboarded it, #04 was gorgeous even by this show’s standards, and featured a bunch of Shirai’s characteristic grand layouts. While held back a bit by Zenitsu’s loud introductory antics, #11 had a fair share of Shirai goodness as well. I find it particularly interesting how once again he comes across as a mixture of ufotable’s best traits, even on an individual level. For one, his approach to horror has both the quietly unsettling atmosphere you’d expect from Takuya Nonaka‘s works – though still filtered through Shirai’s own fondness of dutch angles – as well as the more cinematic yet just as unnerving shots that feel more like Takayuki Hirao‘s legacy.
After a couple of months of silence since that last appearance, Shirai returned to direct and storyboard Demon Slayer #19. And it couldn’t have been any other way: a director who’s inherited the spirit of the studio, including the techniques of those who are gone now, handling the episode where the two siblings at the core of this tale awaken to their family’s legacy. A masterful effort that could only be pulled off by a director like Shirai, who’s dipped their toes in so many of the aspects that go into making anime.Where to even begin? A feeling of danger that’s not conveyed by the script but by Shirai’s storyboards. Layouts that accentuate that imposing presence, juggling the duty of giving visual form to the character standings with the equally tricky task of establishing recognizable space in a setting without easily identifiable landmarks like a forest – no wonder Shirai decided to draw all animation layouts himself. Even if we look beyond the areas that are supposed to be his forte, everything remains at an exceptional level. Compositing is one of the few anime production roles that Shirai has no experience with, and yet #19 wasn’t only the prettiest episode yet, it also made the animation easier to read than ever despite all the conceptually busy shots. And of course, there’s no writing a post touching on this episode without mentioning the sound direction: the way the insert song kicks in tickles the exact spot in the brain to get you all fired up, and the segue into the special ending with Matsushima’s family illustrations is the most touching part of the show altogether.
This way(Film score) is how most movies are composed because it is just better, doing the music when you have a visuals is better than just basing on the script, other anime that did this were Kimetsu and Liz and the blue bird both had great soundtrack
Last edited by ADab1za; October 26th, 2019 at 06:14 PM.
I'm just trying to make sense of this singularity in my opinion of the guy's work. Who knows what happened that caused me to dislike this OST that much.
I hate how they used the shit 2012 RN EMIYA instead of the original from the 2004 game. And I still stand by mother fucking Kajiura or her sound director will not include EMIYA in the movie. EMIYA in the poster PV was just to stroke our cocks to get us hyped, they pulled the same shit last year for the Lost Butterfly poster PV where they played the 2012 Mighty Wind remix
EMIYA was not good enough for all this screaming about it.
It was good, but other than the reference/nostagia value, it wasn't that good. Plenty of stuff could take its place, and with better effect.
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Fukusawa's ost sounds like some hollywood blockbuster action music, that's why it's forgetable. All I can remember are remixes, even a bit remix from Fate/Zero (though only used in first few episodes)
I don't hate it, it's just..... you know only sounds good when you watch something and forget it the moment it end
It sound it try hard being grander than it should be
Spoiler:
Wandering on internet
On Emiya's soundtrack...
I think it was more of Kajiura respecting the original composer for the music.
She can do homages like what she did with some of the soundtracks in FSN: HF.
If you will compare the soundtrack from when Shinji left Shirou alone after Sakura intervened for him in presage flower to the one in FSN VN, it's not noticeable the first time, but you will hear certain tones and follow the same tempo, only a notch higher in tone, that are the same with Ever Present Feeling the more you listen to it.
Not dealing with it...
Why even try?
This is golden...
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