What brought this on? Other than them both being visual novels with eroge elements, Tsukihime is nowhere close to being the prototype of FSN. FSN itself is a bishoujo bastardization of Fate protoype, Nasu’s original Fate work. Besides that, there are plenty of people out there who still care about the Remake, so yes, it still matters that the Remake happens. I count myself as being among those people since I liked Tsukihime and disliked FSN.Originally Posted by Gyrad1
More like significant improvement. The character designs alone are way better and more memorable.
Making King Arthur a girl is a bishoujo bastardization, one that Nasu himself deeply regrets, if this interview is anything to go by…
Nasu: Typical Urobuchi... I really can't pull the wool over your eyes... I intended to take that to the grave with me, but I guess this 10-year anniversary is a good place to talk about it. Just like Urobuchi-san said, it's difficult to call the relationship between Shirou and Saber a relationship between a man and a woman. Saber has fought for a long time as the ruler of Britain, but then turned into a girl all of a sudden and fell in love with Shirou. It's pretty ridiculous when you think about it. But I really wanted to push it towards that sort of boy-meets-girl story. So as a last resort, I had Shirou continually say things to her like "But you're a girl," and "Girls aren't supposed to fight," in order to remind the users that "she is really a girl." It's like the author's actually the one trying to convince Saber that she's a girl... I feel like I could have written it a lot better now, but that was the best I could do at the time.You can read the rest of the interview here: https://www.tsukikan.com/misc/nasu-k...ial-forum.htmlNasu: I had no other choice but to make Fate/stay night the way I did for that bishojo game format. That was one of the reasons why I once said to Urobuchi, "I don't think I can make bishojo games anymore." The more you pour both what the author wants to draw and romance elements that will excite the users into a work, the more distant they get from each other... that was my dilemma. Trying to force them together would only warp the work. Then, at the same time, Urobuchi-san decided to stop focusing on bishojo games and distance himself from the genre. He created an exciting, self-indulgent Macaraoni-esque revenge opera called Zoku Satsuriku no Django, and I was just like... waaaah!
I did read the interview before and nowhere does it say that he "deeply regrets" turning Saber into a girl. After all, he and Takeuchi most likely wouldn't be nearly as known and as successful if Prototype became the final product. Changes are made during the production of a game and just like how a prototype could potentially end up better than what we got in the end, it could have also easily come off much worse and forgettable, not unlike the hundreds of other shallow otome games out there filled with copy pasted eye candy pretty boys and not much else.
Well let's not be too hard on Prototype, guys do have a lot of power with the audience, and not even just fujoshi.
Its Prototype as a premise that is not likely to have achieved the same notoriety as FSN has now.
Also, if there is a sequel, which why not? It all depends on whether Nasu actually feels after all these years he wants to stick to his guns and close the book on the goings on for the gang in Fuyuki, or allow other people to takes things further.
Doesn't mean Tsukihime Remake won't be done, hell, doesn't mean you won't also get Tsukihime 2 afterward. Maybe he'll also work on Mahoyo, and the energy of people being really interested in the narrative of his universes as a whole might inspire him to adopt a more Kamachi level of output. One can dream.
I dislike the Fate route, so i am interested in the idea of nasu releasing the original prototype story because i think, for me at least, it probably wouldve been a lot better in that form. Besides nasu always wanks how much hes a shoujo guy, yet he writes mostly masturbatory male otaku stuff, id like to see more of that sweet maiden side of nasu.
as for tsuki 2 and fsn 2, ill take em but i dont necessarily need em.
Sweet maiden, hah. With quite a few characters I can say he has certifiably embraced his shoujo side.
My problem has been one that he admitted to long ago. He has "strong women" who are tamed by men, those strong women being unhinged, and the whole bit about CCC showcasing the flaws of women. All while he talked about the dignity of men to Urobuchi, altogether being summed up as "women are cute and cray-cray, men are cool".
I don't really think that Prototype would help in changing that messaging, being a weak amateur female MC being catered to by her essential reverse harem, fighting against her yandere older sister. That's no less masturbatory, its just in the other direction.
Ain't that the truth. Though I guess people change especially writing wise. I used to imagine a lot of r18 shoujo scenarios when I was younger but now it just feels off to me
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On one hand, you're not wrong. On the other, prototype appeals to my biases more. Weaker female leads is pretty normal in shoujo, though some do find their way around it like Akatsuki no yona.
what
You can personally like or dislike FSN in any number of ways from a subjective standpoint. But its fundamentlly different from its original concept and should be treated like that. There is nothing in this content that is exchangeable with each other
Is this an actual real life opinion that exists?
Prototype to defined routes of FSN perhaps?
Tsukihime did not specify which routes to choose and flags are the only ones that indicate which girl you are raising flags with as opposed to Fate/Stay Night where you can have the option of playing another route but only if you completed the first or other routes.
Also, Tsukihime is divided into Near Side and Far Side with ladies grouped on each side, as opposed to FSN that had routes for each lady. (And dang it, because of that format in Tsukihime, Satsuki did not get a route. Also, because of that format in FSN, Illya did not get a route.)
Last edited by hayate; April 1st, 2020 at 05:01 PM.
Not dealing with it...
Why even try?
This is golden...
Guys, Nasu said in an interview that during the writing process of Mahoyo, he was heavily inspired by the first episode of Evangelion. Guess that makes Eva totally irrelevant since it's pretty much just a prototype with Mahoyo being a more refined version of it.
Nasu didn’t need to explicitly say how much he regrets what happened because the quotes I provided all but state it. But now I’m curious. If you don’t believe his words in those quotes reflect regret, then what do you believe they reflect? Disappointment, perhaps? None of his words have a trace of pride in them; in fact, they don’t hold any positive connotations.
You misunderstand. “Bishoujo bastardization” isn’t an evaluative statement, but a descriptive one. That is, I’m referring directly to Nasu’s process of trying to transform Fate prototype into FSN, even though it went against what he as “the author [wanted] to draw”, but he ultimately failed to convince himself of Saber being a girl and her romance with Shirou. And he wasn’t the only one to think that. I’m also referring to the fact that making Saber a girl wasn’t done for any creative (i.e. in-universe) reason, but a commercial (i.e. out-of-universe) one, so that his work would sell well among his audience at that time, which was predominantly interested in consuming bishoujo and eroge. These decisions clearly had a negative impact on him because he gave that remark to Urobuchi about how he “[didn’t] think [he could] make bishojo games anymore.” The product selling well doesn’t disprove any of this; rather, it proves it because the changes were made precisely with the hopes that outcome would happen, regardless of what it did to the integrity of the work. For instance, the awkwardness around trying to explain how King Arthur could be the father of Mordred when King Arthur has always been a girl.After all, he and Takeuchi most likely wouldn't be nearly as known and as successful if Prototype became the final product. Changes are made during the production of a game and just like how a prototype could potentially end up better than what we got in the end, it could have also easily come off much worse and forgettable, not unlike the hundreds of other shallow otome games out there filled with copy pasted eye candy pretty boys and not much else.
Inno that whole idea has a certain air of glee around it.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
"Because it came to pass whereupon a certain wizard sought to ensure a certain king of a certain lineage would certainly bear a son. And so, with a certain spell, this certain wizard gifted a certain appendage to a certain king for a certain purpose on a certain eve. Certainly, this is what happened."
Naruhodo, naruhodo. This is the story about the second sword.
He mostly talks about the challenges of writing the romance and relationship aspects involving King Arthur as a girl. You can speculate all you want on how much he personally regrets not going with the original idea but there’s a far deeper level required to debate the intricacies of a writer’s mind than basing it off of a few casual interviews. Hell in another interview, he mentions that he loves all of his characters equally and he doesn't regret making any single one of them. So yeah, Nasu says a lot of things.
Also TM has always made works that are deeply influenced by the trends at the time of their creation. The KnK novels were written in 1998-1999, right when J-horror/supernatural detective fiction were booming. Both Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night came out during the period where VNs and eroge's popularity was at its peak. And nowadays, the company is mainly focusing on mobile/gacha games because guess what? That's what's people are into these days.
Nasu and TM aren't Miyazaki, Anno, Satoshi Kon or Masaaki Yuasa who all make what they want without compromising artistic integrity and with little regard to how economically viable their creations are. They have always focused on their consumers which largely consist of otakus but hey, that's the reality of it.
im the first in line to point and laugh at nasus lack of integrity and balls but the fact that he made a commercial eroge with Sakura as a heroine in 2004 deserves some respect.
When will dark age of purity end.
You'd think that if Nasu really regreted changing Fate/Original Draft to turn it into F/SN, he wouldnt have changed Fate/Original Draft again to turn into Fate/Prototype.
Clearly, Nasu should make Fate/Stay Yuri. With just female characters. That way, there's no problematic implications of men taming women or women being weak and needing men to protect them
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DINO GETTER,FUCK YESS
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