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Thread: Heaven's Feel Movies - Third was coming Spring 2020, now on hiatus

  1. #10281
    Quote Originally Posted by weeblord View Post
    im the first in line to point and laugh at nasus lack of integrity and balls but the fact that he made a commercial eroge with Sakura as a heroine in 2004 deserves some respect.
    Why? What about her?
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrapnel View Post
    Bob the Builder's evil twin.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    HF felt like Nasu holding up a megaphone and screaming, "LOOK AT HOW SAD THIS IS! ISN'T IT SAD? YOU SHOULD FEEL SAD!"


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
    > Einzbern

    > Making smart decisions


    Pick one


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Palingenesis just sounds like we're creating Sarah Palin.


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    >tfw you betray your ideals to get some


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    In short, Japan's syncretism BS striked again.




  2. #10282
    Beats By Matthew ft. Dr. Para Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman View Post
    Why? What about her?
    Otaku tend to react poorly to women with sexual experience outside of the protagonist, even/especially if that sexual experience was rape.
    Supports:


    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  3. #10283
    I mean, the Realta Nua version exists, so you don't have to deal with that thankfully. Ah, but you're talking about the 18+ version. Hmm, I don't know to say to that.
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrapnel View Post
    Bob the Builder's evil twin.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    HF felt like Nasu holding up a megaphone and screaming, "LOOK AT HOW SAD THIS IS! ISN'T IT SAD? YOU SHOULD FEEL SAD!"


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
    > Einzbern

    > Making smart decisions


    Pick one


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Palingenesis just sounds like we're creating Sarah Palin.


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    >tfw you betray your ideals to get some


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    In short, Japan's syncretism BS striked again.




  4. #10284
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six R.Lock's Avatar
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    Realta Nua didn't exist in 2004, you.


  5. #10285
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors weeblord's Avatar
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    2004 eroge community be like


  6. #10286
    Quote Originally Posted by R.Lock View Post
    Realta Nua didn't exist in 2004, you.
    I know that, I just wanted a answer to a question.
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrapnel View Post
    Bob the Builder's evil twin.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    HF felt like Nasu holding up a megaphone and screaming, "LOOK AT HOW SAD THIS IS! ISN'T IT SAD? YOU SHOULD FEEL SAD!"


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
    > Einzbern

    > Making smart decisions


    Pick one


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Palingenesis just sounds like we're creating Sarah Palin.


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    >tfw you betray your ideals to get some


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    In short, Japan's syncretism BS striked again.




  7. #10287
    Horseman War of Apocalypse Wandering Swordwoman's Avatar
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    What question?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bassgs435 View Post
    Clearly, Nasu should make Fate/Stay Yuri. With just female characters. That way, there's no problematic implications of men taming women or women being weak and needing men to protect them
    But.... But you are a girl!
    Spoiler:

    Wandering on internet

  8. #10288
    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassgs435 View Post
    Clearly, Nasu should make Fate/Stay Yuri. With just female characters. That way, there's no problematic implications of men taming women or women being weak and needing men to protect them
    That's correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


  9. #10289
    屍食鬼 Ghoul
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarlandGreene View Post
    He mostly talks about the challenges of writing the romance and relationship aspects involving King Arthur as a girl. You can speculate all you want on how much he personally regrets not going with the original idea but there’s a far deeper level required to debate the intricacies of a writer’s mind than basing it off of a few casual interviews. Hell in another interview, he mentions that he loves all of his characters equally and he doesn't regret making any single one of them. So yeah, Nasu says a lot of things.


    Also TM has always made works that are deeply influenced by the trends at the time of their creation. The KnK novels were written in 1998-1999, right when J-horror/supernatural detective fiction were booming. Both Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night came out during the period where VNs and eroge's popularity was at its peak. And nowadays, the company is mainly focusing on mobile/gacha games because guess what? That's what's people are into these days.

    Nasu and TM aren't Miyazaki, Anno, Satoshi Kon or Masaaki Yuasa who all make what they want without compromising artistic integrity and with little regard to how economically viable their creations are. They have always focused on their consumers which largely consist of otakus but hey, that's the reality of it.
    Unless Nasu addresses the issue directly, there is no conclusive evidence at this time that points to him having changed his creative dissatisfaction with the specific decisions of turning King Arthur into a girl and trying to write a romance between her and Shirou. Suggesting a statement like Nasu said he likes all his characters equally and doesn’t regret making any of them somehow reflects a change on Nasu’s part isn’t effective because nothing about that statement is a clear refutation of Nasu’s disappointment with the two decisions he made that I mentioned above. Besides which, there’s a quote from Nasu that I’ll be bringing up wherein he says the audience can settle on something that he doesn’t necessarily agree with in a creative sense, but he’ll accept it because they prefer it. The fact he still opened up about his dissatisfaction with genderbending King Arthur and trying to make her a romance option for Shirou suggests it was a couple of decisions he wasn’t happy with even after the work’s commercial success.

    As for the other half of your post, what you said doesn’t conflict with anything I said in my last post. We agree, actually, on the point that Nasu turned King Arthur into a girl and made her a romanceable option because he wanted to meet his commercial goal at that time as best as he believed he could. The problem is that you and I are arguing from two different places. Essentially, you take issue with the phrase “bishoujo bastardization” because you believe the commercial success of the work goes against that. On the other hand, I use that phrase because making it into a bishoujo was done only for the reason of reaching a commercial goal. There was never any creative intention or reason to make King Arthur a girl and a romance option for Shirou. Nasu tried his best, but he ultimately couldn’t convince himself (or a number of people in the fandom) of those changes.

    Nasu isn’t a fool. He knows that failing commercially wouldn’t fall on his shoulders alone, so he isn’t entirely above tweaking his works to be as LCD as possible. The following quote from this interview (https://wakameparadise.wordpress.com.../nasu-ikuhara/) says it all:

    Nasu: That’s true. I do think abstract background art that’s pretty but has a do-not-enter atmosphere might be more fitting, but all the other members of the staff shot me down because “That doesn’t fit Nasu-san’s style” (laughs)

    Once a work is released into the world, it doesn’t belong only to the creator but to the readers as well, so if every reader thinks “The realistic style is more fitting”, I think that’s the correct choice for the visuals. If I were a novelist, all the responsibility would be on me, so I could make it suit my own tastes. I could write for just one reader, and if it doesn’t sell I could just live on corn snacks for a year (laughs). But I’m making games. I have 15 staff members working on my script along with me, and if we fail, I’m not the only one taking the fall. So I want to listen to the staff’s opinions and make something that will be as widely accepted as possible.
    Even so, none of this says Nasu is content creatively with making decisions like genderbending King Arthur. That’s why this quote exists, wherein he says trying to satisfy his audience conflicted with what he wanted to do as a writer:

    Nasu: I had no other choice but to make Fate/stay night the way I did for that bishojo game format. That was one of the reasons why I once said to Urobuchi, "I don't think I can make bishojo games anymore." The more you pour both what the author wants to draw and romance elements that will excite the users into a work, the more distant they get from each other... that was my dilemma. Trying to force them together would only warp the work. Then, at the same time, Urobuchi-san decided to stop focusing on bishojo games and distance himself from the genre. He created an exciting, self-indulgent Macaraoni-esque revenge opera called Zoku Satsuriku no Django, and I was just like... waaaah!
    The bottom line is this: attaining a commercial goal isn’t the same as attaining a creative goal. In making King Arthur a girl and a romanceable for Shirou, Nasu compromised a creative goal to try reaching a commercial goal. While he did attain that commercial goal, he wasn’t satisfied with having to sacrifice his creative autonomy to do so. Hence, his comment, “I don’t think I can make bishojo games anymore.”

    Again, “bishoujo bastardization” isn’t evaluative, but descriptive. It’s what happened. Your latest post agrees with it.

  10. #10290
    Gläubig müssen die nicht sein, daran glauben müssen sie I3uster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madarra View Post
    You'd think that if Nasu really regreted changing Fate/Original Draft to turn it into F/SN, he wouldnt have changed Fate/Original Draft again to turn into Fate/Prototype.
    I think the base assumption that the work was at any point developed enough to be even remotely finished before changing the female MC into a male is ignorant of the creative process in general.

    It's a bold assumption to even think Ayaka would have the same struggle as Shirou and that did not enter the picture later than the switch to a bishoujo game.

    hell im not even sure the illya/sakura route split would be developed enough to make even a short story out of it, its not kohaku route on a strict deadline or anything

    - - - Updated - - -

    basically this is crying over unused concept art for sw 9

    nobody made anything with these ideas so they are nebulous concepts in some dudes head, not an alternative version of the game that received a last minute 180 degree switch
    [04:55] Lianru: i3uster is actuallly quite cute

  11. #10291
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Yeah I'll be the first person to cry about prototype but concepts are just that and with the years that pass many aspects of the story and characters change even if the base is the same. An authors whims are like that, especially for Nasuverse who was doing it to appeal to an audience

  12. #10292
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six GDB's Avatar
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    I want Prototype because it seems like a neat story. I don't care about the purity of the concept or any nonsense.

  13. #10293
    Surpass her level, if you dare. hayate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeblord View Post
    2004 eroge community be like

    Okay, let me have a piece of that person who broke that cd like wood.

    That's a commodity many would have fought to have it, and that person broke it like it's a cheap item.
    Not dealing with it...

    Why even try?


    This is golden...
    Quote Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
    Lol Ishtarin went full Aqua
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    I've seen people in this forum spend the GDP of a third world country into Grand Order
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    Yeah, there's a saying that you should strive for perfection knowing full well you won't achieve it. Saber looked at it and said "Hold my Beer"
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    And then all her friends resented her for it.

  14. #10294
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors TheSeaDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeblord View Post
    2004 eroge community be like


    what......happened here? I guess it have something to do wit the waifu not being perfect enought, considering what you said before

  15. #10295
    屍食鬼 Ghoul
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSeaDragon View Post
    what......happened here? I guess it have something to do wit the waifu not being perfect enought, considering what you said before
    The "main heroine", who is the protagonist's childhood friend, not only is non-virgin but she had been in a relationship with another man shortly before the start of the game... That's what I heard at least.
    I think the reaction wasn't solely because she wasn't virgin but the combination of this with her being sort of the main heroine and a childhood friend.

  16. #10296
    死徒 Dead Apostle Dragolord09's Avatar
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    What's the name of that game anyway?

  17. #10297
    屍食鬼 Ghoul
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    Kakyuusei 2.

  18. #10298
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors weeblord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSeaDragon View Post
    what......happened here? I guess it have something to do wit the waifu not being perfect enought, considering what you said before
    its one of the wildest stories youll hear about eroge history.

    Elf was the undeniable king of early days of eroge (80-90s) and one of the most influential developers to exist in the medium, with super popular and famous titles like Dragon knight, Doukyuusei and YU-NO. In 2004, they made a sequel to their popular late 90s release kakyuusei. In Kakyuusei 2, the heavily advertised poster girl was the sweet childhood friend heroine Tamaki who was expected by fans to become a new industry icon................ but her route dealt with NTR flavored love triangle drama. She was nonvirgin, she had a rich college boyfriend, you catch them leaving a love hotel yadda yadda yadda... in the end you cuck the boyfriend and steal her away from him, but the sheer asshurt this betrayal of expectations caused had people snapping discs and bombing elf with complaints and death threats. After this elf was I guess kinda blacklisted by the more mainstream, purity obsessed audiences and they slowly became a really weird NTR drama focused niche company until finally going bankrupt in 2015. Kakyuusei 2 is probably the biggest single factor why girls who "belong" to MC are required to be pure in otaku media. Its not what started the purity craze, but its what showed other creators the sheer power of purityshitter rage.

    its worth to note that elf had flirted with NTR drama before (i hear the CEO liked those kinda things, and that hes the one that pushed into that direction) but Kakyuusei 2 i guess was too much, in the wrong game, and maybe too late (not the 90s anymore gramps!).

  19. #10299
    屍食鬼 Ghoul
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    Speaking of the CEO, didn't he stop writing VNs afterwards(at least under the name he used until then) despite that it wasn't him who wrote Kakyuusei 2?

  20. #10300
    Harbringer of Beguiling Light bassgs435's Avatar
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    In that context, Nasu doing what he did with Sakura is goddamn daring. Same year as that shitstorm, too. Wow.
    Spoiler:

    Spoiler:


    DINO GETTER,FUCK YESS
    Spoiler:

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