A fine end for a VN router, a terrible end for a movie trilogyOriginally Posted by ballinamon
A fine end for a VN router, a terrible end for a movie trilogy
True End is the only one of the two that actually feels complete. Normal End is better written but it doesn't feel definite and lacks an actual resolution. It works fine as an extra, but horrible as an actual ending and it kind of ignores themes presented in the last third of the route for the sake of a sad ending. It has a lot of shortcomings, more than True in my opinion.
Last edited by yokushi; November 25th, 2019 at 09:59 AM.
I was going to ask, what even would be the argument for the normal ending? But you made this post. Like, I'm pretty sure that more people would like the happier ending.
Last edited by Laserman; November 25th, 2019 at 10:05 AM.
Spoiler:
Basically all of this. Also what Ygg said, its fine as an alternate ending in the VN, but not for the movies
I'm always surprised by the amount of people clamoring for the Normal End. They're not a majority by any means, but they're way more than I expected.
It's understandable that Normal End continues the suffering streak of the route which is why it's liked by a lot of people, but it absolutely does not pay any heed to the thematic or narrative payoff of the route and a big chunk of the main cast's arcs.
People like their edgy stuff, I guess.
Same. Is not bad writen but it really gloss over a lot of stuff for the sake of angst, thats why i would not call it more fittin. I honestly see more deep in the message of the true end, thats is yeah, shit happened, but they still will move forward.
And dont forget that is is a movie, you are selling visuals
Whereas the True Ending overlooks a lot of stuff for the sake of mainlining sugar
For me I find the sudden tonal shift for the last few minutes of the story incredibly Jarring, it just pulls me out of the story.
Sakura: "Nobody cares that I murdered literally hundreds of people, I have my two loyal slaves and literally infinite power as the consequences of acting like a genocidal nutcase"
Shirou: "I drew on powers beyond mortal ken and almost destroyed myself, but the only consequence I suffer is having to have regular sex with a woman I'm slavishly worshipful of"
Rin: "I was worried at first, but then I got saved by a literal 'lol!Zelretch' moment because this is a fanfic ending"
It literally reads like a fix-fic ending someone would write after watching/reading HF and going 'B-b-b-but all the characters don't get a saccharine-sweet perfect ending! Imma fix it!"
Nasu himself said normal as the only ending didnt feel right at all. Calling fan fiction to the author intent is quite dumb
Also, you got a lot of things wrong there
Last edited by TheSeaDragon; November 25th, 2019 at 05:05 PM.
Oh the hyperbole. I guess Illya doesn't matter for you then.
Also True ending doesn't really overlook anything in the story, unless you are into a crime and punishment denouement self-gratification. Normal actually shoves characters and development aside for the sake of its own narrative and ignores every single instance of Shirou growing a bit of self-interest (that is what makes True happen, as he doubts for a bit because for once he actually doesn't want to die and then Illya shows up) to make it happen. It's evocative and beautiful, but it doesn't feel like an actual ending.
Last edited by yokushi; November 25th, 2019 at 05:07 PM.
Amen
It's less liking a happier ending, and more that like he said, True is more complete. Normal has a more sober, harsh vibe, but misses a lot of stuff and a lot isn't explained. If Sakura trains and says she is interacting more with the world, why does she seem to still he so stuck, especially since she takes an apprentice that should have helped in the healing process I think.
Why would Rin let an amateur teach her granddaughter, who is supposed to be the next head? Where are the parents? Rin, as nice as she can be, definitely would not give that job to anyone but the person most suited to the job. Just..so much is vague and made to setup that Sakura is alone to crush you with it, instead of showing her life without Shirou and distancing herself from people, basically coping the wrong way, but still it's not shown well.
Whereas with True, she has a mentor, is building her own contacts, working out a life not just for her and Shirou, but for *herself*. Its a good way of showing growth, her handling Rin obviously being awkward about liking Shirou with a laugh and a knowing tease is good. Then lore hit after lore bit after lore bit. Explained in better detail and without the vagueness you see ina lot of the endings. It still has some parts that need adding to, but only imo because I want to see what comes of it.
First, she did not kill hundreds of people, the one who died number less than 80, and she was just as regretful of it as Kiritsugu was, who actually killed close to 500 once the smoke cleared, and actually had a hand in Sakura's unwilling tainting if we are being frank and honest.Sakura: "Nobody cares that I murdered literally hundreds of people, I have my two loyal slaves and literally infinite power as the consequences of acting like a genocidal nutcase"
Shirou: "I drew on powers beyond mortal ken and almost destroyed myself, but the only consequence I suffer is having to have regular sex with a woman I'm slavishly worshipful of"
Rin: "I was worried at first, but then I got saved by a literal 'lol!Zelretch' moment because this is a fanfic ending"
Sakura herself is trying to do cleanup, which is more than a lot of other people are doing. The loyal slaves bit is out of line, since while Medusa has precarious sentiment (though hell, she disobeys Sakura when she tells her to do the right thing sometimes, so that takes away from your 'loyal' bit) and Shirou would argue against her even if she would use her power for evil which isn't likely then. I would vote when she was blackened that her soul was shredding itself apart and characters have done worse with complete clarity of mind btw, and by character I mean protags, not villains.
Shirou didn't get off Scot free, he lost his body and now is in a precarious position that they are playing by ear (they have no idea if he'll be stable in the body he inhabits, and Sakura wants to get him a better one). They used most of their assets to get used goods, so he got that used body at quite the cost and needs constant maintenance.
The Association still wants to punish her, Zel just distracted them from their obviously crooked dealings. They just cared the gate was closed, but no one ever said they would give up on that, just they wouldn't designate Rin for sealing now. After Zel breaks their students, who knows if they won't come after her again. She smartly wants to get what she needs and wash her hands of the Clock Tower, which is the intelligent thing to do.
Honestly, it's the most detail oriented ending, I can only think you mock it so because you didn't consider what actually happened and went on a full emotive rant.
Last edited by Altima of the Gates; November 26th, 2019 at 11:52 AM.
Awesome visual.
As much as I love Emiya, I don't really care all that much about yet another umptenth version of the song. Only thing that matters to me is getting a Light and Darkness remix during Shirou and Kotomine's fight. That's where I'll be docking points if I don't get one. Though I do agree that Kajiura seemingly refusing to do any VN remixes in general is disappointing...
I know I'm responding to old posts. Been away for a few months.
"The world is just another word for the things you value around you, right? That's something I've had since I was born. If you tell me to rule such a world, I already rule it."
Didn't Sudou state in an interview he's willing to give Kajiura carte blanche when it comes to how she wants to approach the BGM of any given scenes? I wouldn't have my hopes up for any remixes (though they are certainly welcome).
Its not that people want a new remix, they just want to hear Emiya during the scene. We’ve already peaked with Crows Claw anyway, both in Emiyas and in Light&Darkness.
I prefer #0 over CC, but to each their own. As for it getting any spot for SS, if it shows it'll be during when Shirou pulls off the Shroud and we get Nine Lives, or when we get to the Cave with Saber. I'd be fine if there's no L&D remix if what is there fits, but let's be honest, we all wanna hear L&D for that final confrontation :P
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"during the scene"? Which scene? How am I supposed to know if you don't tell me? :-/ As for CC's remixes, eh, I can't agree with you there. I like them, but they're nowhere near good enough for me to consider them the "peak". I also don't think their Emiya rendition is anything special, I like several of the other versions of the song better. CC's Light and Darkness remix is pretty awesome though, yeah.
"The world is just another word for the things you value around you, right? That's something I've had since I was born. If you tell me to rule such a world, I already rule it."
I think he meant during Nine Bullet Revolver, which, let's be honest, they are gonna need to go full ham to milk Emiya as it was in VN, because the scene is super short in reality, so they'll have to do the same as the VN and do a lot of dramatic cuts of views of UBW and hyping it up with maybe Shirou's veins bursting from the magical energy or something to make it hype.
I just want a really dramatic version of This Illusion (instrumental).
I assumed it to be rather self explanatory considering it plays twice during HF, but nobody ever associates Emiya with the Kotomine fight because Light & Darkness quickly takes over.
I can't help but find something hilarious about Sakura's place in all these, in the entire trilogy, it's like the Carnival Phantasm sketch where she keeps going "Oh, woe is me, I'm such an unfortunate heroine!" *dramatically puts back of hand on forehead*
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