Why? What about her?Originally Posted by weeblord
Why? What about her?
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Otaku tend to react poorly to women with sexual experience outside of the protagonist, even/especially if that sexual experience was rape.
I mean, the Realta Nua version exists, so you don't have to deal with that thankfully. Ah, but you're talking about the 18+ version. Hmm, I don't know to say to that.
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Realta Nua didn't exist in 2004, you.
2004 eroge community be like
I know that, I just wanted a answer to a question.
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What question?
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But.... But you are a girl!
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Wandering on internet
That's correct.
Unless Nasu addresses the issue directly, there is no conclusive evidence at this time that points to him having changed his creative dissatisfaction with the specific decisions of turning King Arthur into a girl and trying to write a romance between her and Shirou. Suggesting a statement like Nasu said he likes all his characters equally and doesn’t regret making any of them somehow reflects a change on Nasu’s part isn’t effective because nothing about that statement is a clear refutation of Nasu’s disappointment with the two decisions he made that I mentioned above. Besides which, there’s a quote from Nasu that I’ll be bringing up wherein he says the audience can settle on something that he doesn’t necessarily agree with in a creative sense, but he’ll accept it because they prefer it. The fact he still opened up about his dissatisfaction with genderbending King Arthur and trying to make her a romance option for Shirou suggests it was a couple of decisions he wasn’t happy with even after the work’s commercial success.
As for the other half of your post, what you said doesn’t conflict with anything I said in my last post. We agree, actually, on the point that Nasu turned King Arthur into a girl and made her a romanceable option because he wanted to meet his commercial goal at that time as best as he believed he could. The problem is that you and I are arguing from two different places. Essentially, you take issue with the phrase “bishoujo bastardization” because you believe the commercial success of the work goes against that. On the other hand, I use that phrase because making it into a bishoujo was done only for the reason of reaching a commercial goal. There was never any creative intention or reason to make King Arthur a girl and a romance option for Shirou. Nasu tried his best, but he ultimately couldn’t convince himself (or a number of people in the fandom) of those changes.
Nasu isn’t a fool. He knows that failing commercially wouldn’t fall on his shoulders alone, so he isn’t entirely above tweaking his works to be as LCD as possible. The following quote from this interview (https://wakameparadise.wordpress.com.../nasu-ikuhara/) says it all:
Even so, none of this says Nasu is content creatively with making decisions like genderbending King Arthur. That’s why this quote exists, wherein he says trying to satisfy his audience conflicted with what he wanted to do as a writer:Nasu: That’s true. I do think abstract background art that’s pretty but has a do-not-enter atmosphere might be more fitting, but all the other members of the staff shot me down because “That doesn’t fit Nasu-san’s style” (laughs)
Once a work is released into the world, it doesn’t belong only to the creator but to the readers as well, so if every reader thinks “The realistic style is more fitting”, I think that’s the correct choice for the visuals. If I were a novelist, all the responsibility would be on me, so I could make it suit my own tastes. I could write for just one reader, and if it doesn’t sell I could just live on corn snacks for a year (laughs). But I’m making games. I have 15 staff members working on my script along with me, and if we fail, I’m not the only one taking the fall. So I want to listen to the staff’s opinions and make something that will be as widely accepted as possible.
The bottom line is this: attaining a commercial goal isn’t the same as attaining a creative goal. In making King Arthur a girl and a romanceable for Shirou, Nasu compromised a creative goal to try reaching a commercial goal. While he did attain that commercial goal, he wasn’t satisfied with having to sacrifice his creative autonomy to do so. Hence, his comment, “I don’t think I can make bishojo games anymore.”Nasu: I had no other choice but to make Fate/stay night the way I did for that bishojo game format. That was one of the reasons why I once said to Urobuchi, "I don't think I can make bishojo games anymore." The more you pour both what the author wants to draw and romance elements that will excite the users into a work, the more distant they get from each other... that was my dilemma. Trying to force them together would only warp the work. Then, at the same time, Urobuchi-san decided to stop focusing on bishojo games and distance himself from the genre. He created an exciting, self-indulgent Macaraoni-esque revenge opera called Zoku Satsuriku no Django, and I was just like... waaaah!
Again, “bishoujo bastardization” isn’t evaluative, but descriptive. It’s what happened. Your latest post agrees with it.
I think the base assumption that the work was at any point developed enough to be even remotely finished before changing the female MC into a male is ignorant of the creative process in general.
It's a bold assumption to even think Ayaka would have the same struggle as Shirou and that did not enter the picture later than the switch to a bishoujo game.
hell im not even sure the illya/sakura route split would be developed enough to make even a short story out of it, its not kohaku route on a strict deadline or anything
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basically this is crying over unused concept art for sw 9
nobody made anything with these ideas so they are nebulous concepts in some dudes head, not an alternative version of the game that received a last minute 180 degree switch
[04:55] Lianru: i3uster is actuallly quite cute
Yeah I'll be the first person to cry about prototype but concepts are just that and with the years that pass many aspects of the story and characters change even if the base is the same. An authors whims are like that, especially for Nasuverse who was doing it to appeal to an audience
I want Prototype because it seems like a neat story. I don't care about the purity of the concept or any nonsense.
Okay, let me have a piece of that person who broke that cd like wood.2004 eroge community be like
That's a commodity many would have fought to have it, and that person broke it like it's a cheap item.
Not dealing with it...
Why even try?
This is golden...
2004 eroge community be like
what......happened here? I guess it have something to do wit the waifu not being perfect enought, considering what you said before
The "main heroine", who is the protagonist's childhood friend, not only is non-virgin but she had been in a relationship with another man shortly before the start of the game... That's what I heard at least.
I think the reaction wasn't solely because she wasn't virgin but the combination of this with her being sort of the main heroine and a childhood friend.
What's the name of that game anyway?
Kakyuusei 2.
its one of the wildest stories youll hear about eroge history.
Elf was the undeniable king of early days of eroge (80-90s) and one of the most influential developers to exist in the medium, with super popular and famous titles like Dragon knight, Doukyuusei and YU-NO. In 2004, they made a sequel to their popular late 90s release kakyuusei. In Kakyuusei 2, the heavily advertised poster girl was the sweet childhood friend heroine Tamaki who was expected by fans to become a new industry icon................ but her route dealt with NTR flavored love triangle drama. She was nonvirgin, she had a rich college boyfriend, you catch them leaving a love hotel yadda yadda yadda... in the end you cuck the boyfriend and steal her away from him, but the sheer asshurt this betrayal of expectations caused had people snapping discs and bombing elf with complaints and death threats. After this elf was I guess kinda blacklisted by the more mainstream, purity obsessed audiences and they slowly became a really weird NTR drama focused niche company until finally going bankrupt in 2015. Kakyuusei 2 is probably the biggest single factor why girls who "belong" to MC are required to be pure in otaku media. Its not what started the purity craze, but its what showed other creators the sheer power of purityshitter rage.
its worth to note that elf had flirted with NTR drama before (i hear the CEO liked those kinda things, and that hes the one that pushed into that direction) but Kakyuusei 2 i guess was too much, in the wrong game, and maybe too late (not the 90s anymore gramps!).
Speaking of the CEO, didn't he stop writing VNs afterwards(at least under the name he used until then) despite that it wasn't him who wrote Kakyuusei 2?
In that context, Nasu doing what he did with Sakura is goddamn daring. Same year as that shitstorm, too. Wow.
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DINO GETTER,FUCK YESS
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