Fate/Grand Order General Discussion (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[R.Lock]

Suddenly its bad gameplay opinions thread
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btw Saber Gilles is decently memeworthy if you were to run him in memesetup he will produce ok-numbers.

By default, when I say Gilles's full name, it's the frog-eyed one.

[Aozaki-desu]

By default, when I say Gilles's full name, it's the frog-eyed one.

if you ok with cascu hitting like wet noodle you can stomach the frog

[asterism42]

this is because: where FGO is not stupid it is thoroughly unimaginative, and where it is even slightly imaginative it is thoroughly stupid

Why are you even in this thread when you've made it abundantly clear how much you hate GO?

[R.Lock]

if you ok with cascu hitting like wet noodle you can stomach the frog

I had plenty of laughs with CasCu's performance in Setsubun. And having an NP charge for shitty NP and 3-hit Dodge beats Fear and a shitty NP.

[Rafflesiac]

if you ok with cascu hitting like wet noodle you can stomach the frog

CasCu was actually immensely satisfying to use during Setsubun with his NP charge and dodges.

[GundamFSN]

Why are you even in this thread when you've made it abundantly clear how much you hate GO?

A walking corpse of hatred lingering BL. He has no wish to fulfill. His purpose of living - if you can call it as living- is to only hate hate hate hate.

Dullahan is a Dead Face long before LE was a thing.

Smh Nasu you plagiarizer.

[Kyte]

No.

I'm asking for significant reworks of old systems because those 200 characters, which are constantly getting changed and updated and balanced and improved, are all based off the game's beginning systems, which were made for what was always meant to be a mediocre mobile game- one third of the command cards are complete garbage compared to the other two (drop the lowest damage attack this turn for a small, potential chance to do slightly more damage next turn), almost every Servant that doesn't have cash potential (ie, everything bronze and silver and a handful of golds) still have the stock animations and skills and NPs from several years ago, significant parts of these people of legend are relegated to skills that go "has small chance to work and than you can't try it again for ten turns, after which you or the enemies will probably be dead anyway lol".

The game's original systems are perfectly fine. 3 card types, pick 3 out of 5, three characters, 3 skills per character, 1 NP per character, etc. That's all fine.

Fixing Quicks just requires some numerical rebalancing or perhaps some special effect like overcrit or whatever. Bolting on extra skills or NPs won't fix that.
Animations are a presentational issue, not a design one. Bolting on extra skills or NPs won't fix that.
Skills and NPs that require rebalancing just need SQs. Bolting on extra skills or NPs won't fix that.
I'm not even sure what you're smoking with that last bit.

The design isn't fine, it's been out of date by its own standards for a couple years. A fighting game where two thirds of the roster are by default stronger than the last third is going down in flames if they don't patch it. An FPS where a good chunk of the weapons are useless or subpar is an FPS where everybody uses the same meta weapons.I'm not stic king with the Saber example because she's a character I like or anything, she's just the best example that comes to mind. Way out of date, powercrept, widely regarded as the worst SSR, has multiple things attributed to her which could be added to her skillset or NP (which, let's be honest, will probably be done sooner or later, but still).

You don't tear down your house because the foundations happen to be some years old.
Your example is an example of balance issues, which are not design issues. Balance issues are handled with SQs. That doesn't require upending everything.
Tossing everything and the kitchen sink to characters wouldn't make anything better. It'd just make characters even slower to produce.

And this is the perfect opportunity for it all. If you're heading on to Lostbelt, chances are, you've got multiple maxed Servants, in levels and probably in skills, the coming chapters are adding a bunch of new Servants which can be tuned towards new systems from before they come out rather than made for the current systems and then changed afterwards, I've seen a bunch of people complaining in this very thread that they've maxed their stashes of QP, EXP, have hundreds of skill gems and every material that isn't the 3 bajillion stakes they've had to shove up Ereshkigal, and so on.

Yes, because rendering all those characters built over the course of three years useless and irrelevant is such a great business move.

Reinforce what's already built, rather than nailing the new extensions onto the cheap pre-fab house and hoping they'll hold.

Your suggestion was literally to staple a second servant's kit onto the first. The irony here is palpable.

[Gold Experience]

Well, in theory they could go Granblue 5* way and provide an occasional character with full upgrade or go Brave Exvius 7* way and limit those upgrades to SSR only. However, we all know they'd rather just make a new version.

[Noa]

Give Jeanne a better attack stat.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Give Jeanne a better attack stat.

she has one, its called jeanne alter

[Kyte]

Well, in theory they could go Granblue 5* way and provide an occasional character with full upgrade or go Brave Exvius 7* way and limit those upgrades to SSR only. However, we all know they'd rather just make a new version.

FFBE's method is blatant p2w rollbait and cancer of the worst caliber. (Also grinding hell)

I'm not sure what you refer to with Granblue's method.

[R.Lock]

Cancer grind for rarity unlock, cancer bond grind, then some random fight.

Up everything to 11 for a few charas 'cuz Grindblue is silly like that.

[Marros]

I'm not sure what you refer to with Granblue's method.

In FGO terms, it's a 5th Ascension and like 3 Strengthening Quests at once, giving a new NP, buffing a skill or two, and adding a 4th skill. Also, new Art and Sprites.


R.Lock is right though, it's hella grindy in GBF.

[Zork Knight]

Phantom's kick-ass animation from Arcade gave me hope that they will finally give him the 3 SQs he needs this year.

And switch his deck to AAA or something.

[Trubo]

Nah, she isn't bad, imo. She's just average. Average in every way- average NP damage, average NP gain, average star weight for her class iirc, average attack, average-to-high HP pool. She's the worst SSR on the tier list because she's as basic as a Servant can get, she isn't great at anything, she's the baseline.

Lol tier lists. Being average is better than being so specialized they're never used.

I'd say Scheherezade was made completely wrong- by her legend, she was supposed to be the fearless & clever woman who basically offered herself up for the slaughter, and then metaphorically danced on a knife's edge every night keeping the king at bay. Staller/debuffer/support for her allies is what she could've been. Maybe she could've been the new single target NP charger, given that the legend was basically the king going "i want someone to bang, but i have, like, murderous commitment issues"
Shuten definitely needs some sort of buff, but maybe not NP-wise. Maybe send her toward the debuffer role.
Jeanne just needs to replace those two basically garbage-tier skills. Hell, she & the other Rulers could have the first actual functional "charm" skills (ie; command seals) - get opponents to attack targets on their own side, or cause self-damage every time they attack, and so on.

It's funny you mention debuff role for Scheherazade because her NP interlude does buff that, but only for 1 debuff. Jeanne's NP interlude is so powerful that it more than makes up for her only really bad skill, True Name Discernment. As for your charm/CS thing, that's pretty much what their stun Servant skill is.

- - - Updated - - -

I think there's already a term for that. It's called compu gacha, and its a banned model iirc.

I thought it was only banned if the combination provided some sort of gameplay benefit (e.g. having a party of full Sabers would give all of them +50% Power Up). Or, to get Servant C, you must have already rolled Servant A and B.

[eddyak]

The game's original systems are perfectly fine. 3 card types, pick 3 out of 5, three characters, 3 skills per character, 1 NP per character, etc. That's all fine.

Fixing Quicks just requires some numerical rebalancing or perhaps some special effect like overcrit or whatever. Bolting on extra skills or NPs won't fix that.
Animations are a presentational issue, not a design one. Bolting on extra skills or NPs won't fix that.
Skills and NPs that require rebalancing just need SQs. Bolting on extra skills or NPs won't fix that.
I'm not even sure what you're smoking with that last bit.

Quick cards need a huge rebalance. On anybody but the likes of Jack & Okita, they're anaemic almost to pointlessness. Maybe changing the numbers around might be a viable solution- high risk for higher reward and all that, sure, have Okita drop a lowered-damage quick this turn so maybe she can drop 3x damage on a crit next turn- but that wouldn't be a good solution, it wouldn't get over the fact that dropping your damage now to potentially get some more damage next turn is only good if you can actually have a decent chance to get that damage. it wouldn't get over the fact that with the release of a single CE, they made the entire Quick playstyle redundant.

The last bit? Oh, you mean the skills that, for example, have a chance to do something- so many worthless stuns and charms with shitty chances to work, so many bosses and challenge quests with 999% debuff resist, or whose target is so restrictive you'll get to use them every once in a million years (Boudicca and her anti-roman, MHX with her anti-Saberface which will only ever be used against Maid Alter and Surfer Mordred, or, hell, Instakill as an entire mechanic?

You don't tear down your house because the foundations happen to be some years old.
Your example is an example of balance issues, which are not design issues. Balance issues are handled with SQs. That doesn't require upending everything.
Tossing everything and the kitchen sink to characters wouldn't make anything better. It'd just make characters even slower to produce.

You do reinforce your house if you originally made it as an outhouse, then started living in it, and expanding it. Some games are ruined when their devs add bits onto them, and those are the games where the original systems jus don't work with the additions. You start your house on decent foundations, you can figure out how well it actually expands and what you can do with it.

Yes, because rendering all those characters built over the course of three years useless and irrelevant is such a great business move.

Yes, that is exactly what I was suggesting. How on earth did you understand it so perfectly, you genius, you.

Your suggestion was literally to staple a second servant's kit onto the first. The irony here is palpable.

No, no it literally was not.

[Qinglong]

FFBE's method is blatant p2w rollbait and cancer of the worst caliber. (Also grinding hell)

I'm not sure what you refer to with Granblue's method.

Granblue's method is kinda terrible


some characters are literal garbage without reaching level 100 unlock, and the exp scale is so fucked 99-100 is more exp than 1-97 IIRC

[eddyak]

Lol tier lists. Being average is better than being so specialized they're never used.

I don't give a shit about tier lists, but I've got an Artoria and I basically never use her because the other Sabers are more interesting, have better usability and their own stuff that makes them work. Also because I've had Alter since forever and she does Artoria's job better than she does. Yeah, being overspecialised is shit (hello MHX) but at least she has her uses- she churns up almost as many stars as Jack does, and seems to do more damage.

It's funny you mention debuff role for Scheherazade because her NP interlude does buff that, but only for 1 debuff. Jeanne's NP interlude is so powerful that it more than makes up for her only really bad skill, True Name Discernment. As for your charm/CS thing, that's pretty much what their stun Servant skill is.

Scheherezade doesn't make much sense, gameplay-wise, or lore-wise.
Yeah, that's what their stun skill is, but instead of being the skill of a Ruler, of the Heroic Spirits specifically chosen to impartially judge other Heroes, it's a skill that goes "uh, could you stand still for a bit please?" Yes,, being able to command an enemy Servant to drop their NP on their own team, or to activate a Death proc, would be stupidly powerful, but that doesn't mean the skill can't be used in a more interesting way.

[Rafflesiac]

More importantly Scheherazade has actual sex appeal unlike Artoria and is thus automatically superior

[hayate]

A walking corpse of hatred lingering BL. He has no wish to fulfill. His purpose of living - if you can call it as living- is to only hate hate hate hate.

Dullahan is a Dead Face long before LE was a thing.

Smh Nasu you plagiarizer.

So Dullahan's an Avenger class in real life?

Give Jeanne a better attack stat.

Pair her with Jack, and she'll crit like crazy.

Pair her with any decent Caster with LV 10 on support offensive buffs and she'll make short work of all of the Servants.

Mystic Codes can even do justice.

It's all on the player on how to use her offensives.

she has one, its called jeanne alter

And crept up on the vanilla Jeanne. She even became more popular than the vanilla one.