Fate/Grand Order General Discussion (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Comun]

And yet we see a scythe user in the Lancer Class.

[Gabriulio]

So the prerequisite for Lancer is just your weapon having a long handle, no matter what is on the tip.

[manafusion]

And yet we see a scythe user in the Lancer Class.

Yeah, I'm not gonna deny that. She definitely is an outlier. And also the *only* outlier. At this point, I can even say that Voyager can even be put into the Rider class because they're very similar. One travels across something and the other travels on something. If moving across something applies that said something is what you're also on, then it's the same. Otherwise, the need for the means to travel across said something also automatically puts him into Rider class.

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Yes, I'm definitely not arguing in good faith here. But at the same time, I really want it to be known that them adding a special class for one special person is absurd. Not when a more generic class exists and is still not worked on till this day.

EDIT: They did it for Moon Cancer because "BB-chan's unique" until she stopped being unique with Ms. Elephant Jinako being added into it. And I expect more to come. I expect Archimedes to somehow make it into the Moon Cancer category as well.

[Gabriulio]

Maybe they'll just reclass Voyager and give him either Double Summon or Double Class.

[GDB]

Yes, I'm definitely not arguing in good faith here. But at the same time, I really want it to be known that them adding a special class for one special person is absurd. Not when a more generic class exists and is still not worked on till this day.

Does Gunner even have a single person? The only one I've seen mentioned previously is Billy the Kid, who's an Archer. Yet you're arguing for its inclusion. Is zero now somehow more than one?

[Trubo]

[Gold Experience]

I have a feeling Gunner was made to ship in more modern servants without making up even more ridiculous reasons for people being forced into standard classes.

[Oz1337]

Honestly Fate's class system has started to be a bit lacking in order to classify most of the Servants we're starting to get. I'm not surprised we started to get new classes like Foreigner at this point.

It was fine back then in Fate/SN, when the most we would reach in terms of discussion would be about Archers using swords as projectiles due to the small pool of Servants, but with the huge amount of Servants currently released and the different versions they get (ignoring non-serious versions like Swimsuit ones) it's very hard to simply classify a Servant in a specific class. Like Medusa Lily's case which we have touched, Nightingale being Berserker which IMO it fits Caster more but whatever, or Sei Shonagon being an Archer which I'm still err about that.

Then you have Servants like Billy the Kid that you can't really classify as Archers. His NP is more about his skill with a gun, but he has no projectile weapon good enough to be an NP nor has an event in their story that can truly classify them as Archers. This will probably happen to any modern Servant that used guns as weapons. In this case I find it appropiate to classify them as Gunners, which I consider a class meant for modern Servants, a low-cost but low-quality class.

[Pendant]

I've been thinking a lot about Trifas Mordred.

[manafusion]

Does Gunner even have a single person? The only one I've seen mentioned previously is Billy the Kid, who's an Archer. Yet you're arguing for its inclusion. Is zero now somehow more than one?

If we're to check on what current current Servants primarily uses gun/s, there's a bunch. Calamity Jane, Billy, Summer Osakabehime, Summer Helena and Summer Anne & Mary. Napoleon is arguably a Gunner due to his cannon technically being a very large bore gun. EMIYA Alter and Nobunaga falls in the line of "potentially yes and no" due to their nature of using non-guns alongside their attacks (EMIYA Alter creates a dual blade K&B in his Extra, Nobunaga uses her katana). Santa Nightingale is in the category of "looks like a gun, feels like a gun, is actually an ampule-firing needle-umbrella" which I guess can classify her as firing a gun... given that we got tranq guns... or maybe not.

[Fujiri]

And Artoria Archer but she also uses Excalibur iirc.

[manafusion]

And Artoria Archer but she also uses Excalibur iirc.

Water gun, yeah. But she also uses Excalibur, yeah.

The real question is "how does one classify as a Gunner". If one only "needs to use a gun" then all of them technically counts. But if one "needs to only use a gun" then the confirmed cases + Napoleon definitely counts and the fringe cases like EMIYA Alter, Nobunaga, Santa Nightingale and even Archer don't.

[Gabriulio]

Gunner is one of those things that work in an actual story where class advantages aren't a thing but from a gameplay perspective adding every extra class would be a cluttered mess.

[Rafflesiac]

Gunner is retarded and Billy is a hero for staving off the cancer known as Simo Hayha.

[manafusion]

I have a feeling Gunner was made to ship in more modern servants without making up even more ridiculous reasons for people being forced into standard classes.

Definitely. There's a few good gun users in the real world with sort of myth status legends based around real world situations. Simo Hayha being one of them as does Jesse James.

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Gunner is one of those things that work in an actual story where class advantages aren't a thing but from a gameplay perspective adding every extra class would be a cluttered mess.

Except they do that. And we got the mess of the class chart we have currently. That's missing a class for anti-Knights. You know what killed the Age of Knights and ushered in the modern combat that we know today? Guns. Gunners are an apt choice for that.

[Gabriulio]

But weapon classes like Saber, Archer, and Lancer are already inclusive for the sake of having multiple members with varying weapons. Gunner is extremely specific.

[manafusion]

Gunner is retarded and Billy is a hero for staving off the cancer known as Simo Hayha.

Rather, DW kinda didn't want to introduce a new class that early in the game's lifespan. That's why we only had the base seven plus Ruler and Avenger. Even so, Avenger only came in around the middle of the story. Things got real crazy when they finally finished Episode 1 and was doing EoR. Moon Cancer, Alter Ego and lastly Foreigners got introduced which made a bunch of wacky shifts in the class chart.

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But weapon classes like Saber, Archer, and Lancer are already inclusive for the sake of having multiple members with varying weapons. Gunner is extremely specific.

Saber still haven't gotten a non-Sword wielder. Fergus' sword looks like a drill but is called a fucking sword so go figure. Archer is the only really diverse Knight class where "launching projectiles" is the only requirement. Lancer has Anna as the only outlier. The rest of the Servants still have spears or lances which meant that Anna's true NP part where she uses Cybele is supposed to be considered a lance or sorts? Or they (DW) couldn't think of a good class to put her so they chuck her into Lancer and that probably makes it even worse.

[Comun]

At this point, I can even say that Voyager can even be put into the Rider class because they're very similar. One travels across something and the other travels on something. If moving across something applies that said something is what you're also on, then it's the same. Otherwise, the need for the means to travel across said something also automatically puts him into Rider class.

This whole argument requires the premise that Voyager is Prince’s Class, which is far from a confirmed fact. If anything the current hints point a lot harder to Voyager 1 being Prince’s True Name instead. His actual Class should be Rider or Foreigner, most likely the latter.

or Sei Shonagon being an Archer which I'm still err about that.

Nagiko’s deal is intentionally parting away with her Caster, so her Class being incompatible with her is not a problem, no matter which Class they went with. She works under the same rules as swimsuit Servants.

[manafusion]

This whole argument requires the premise that Voyager is Prince’s Class, which is far from a confirmed fact. If anything the current hints point a lot harder to Voyager 1 being Prince’s True Name instead. His actual Class should be Rider or Foreigner, most likely the latter.

Which we don't have affirmation until maybe Vol. 2. Until then, anything goes really.

[Rafflesiac]

Nagiko’s deal is intentionally parting away with her Caster, so her Class being incompatible with her is not a problem, no matter which Class they went with. She works under the same rules as swimsuit Servants.

What was the deal with her in the end, anyways? Writer's block?