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Thread: Fate/Grand Order General Discussion (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #266341
    ~~~ manafusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    "It's okay everyone, this objectively terrible event design is fine because it's not as bad as previous events."
    Quote Originally Posted by manafusion View Post
    The ones who needs mats will probably have already fielded max point bonuses such that they're well past the point requirements. The ones who needs points are probably still able to double point farm so it probably matters less whether they can or not.
    My main point. Also, the fact that it's available earlier than usual coupled with the fact that people who don't have the event CEs would probably hit the 50k point requirement mark way sooner means that the whole design was meant for them, not us. We didn't lose anything substantial as people with event CEs. We cleared the shop faster than those without and we're just slightly behind them in terms of point farming. The fact that you're making a fuss about it is sad when you don't consider it as an overall encompassing situation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Oz1337 View Post
    Honestly, I agree with Trubo here, this event is really disappointing compared to most collab events we got. Doing the Case Files collab in NA really shows the difference between the two (and we still have to get the Barbatos and the final boss fight there, can't wait for those two). This really shouldn't have taken a collab slot, it should have been treated like Saber Wars or Guda Guda.

    - They used the terrible 3 point ladder system from Summer 3 that nobody liked, and purposely lock the best nodes for farming points and shop CEs behind the point ladder system, forcing you to complete half the ladder for each one to progress more efficiently.

    - They were very lazy with some of the costumes when they're used in battle with some of them having their accesories suddenly disappear and their weapons suddenly pop,. For me the worst case is Nero replacing her guitar for her sword when it would have been really cool that she used her guitar as weapon, but nah that is too much work for them.

    - No animation upgrades at all for Servants that still have old animations, the new costumes would have been a great opportunity to introduce them.

    - The CENTER mechanic, instead of immediately giving you the music of the Servant that is on the middle you have to listen to the generic music for the Servants that don't have their own version, then suddenly switch to the proper one which feels a bit awkward. Too hard for them to make the transition smooth I guess. And I would have preferred to have the music start right from the very first wave, not sure why it only can trigger at the last wave...

    I really wish they had made this event something like a ranking competition in which whoever you use as center gets higher in the rank, and we basically compete against each other to try to make our favorite Servant be the first one in the ranking list, at least it would have created some fun jokes between the FGO community. What a waste, seriously.
    I don't have anything positive or negative about the 3 point system. It's just another way to make people not run the same battle over and over, I guess. Shop CEs locked behind point system could've been better or could've stayed in the shop but it definitely reduces the amount of farm one needs to do to get full 5 copies of event CE to zero as one should get the CEs whilst their progressing towards clearing the shop, in general. Also means less items one needs to farm as well. See above for the complaint on requiring half the ladder to be completed to unlock the best farming node.

    Costumes with disappearing and reappearing weapons have been around since ages. Yes, it's lazy design. The easiest out they could've done was made the costume hold the weapon when idle, as some Servants do that with their outfit. Because the idle pose is without weapon, that's why those weapons keep disappearing and reappearing. Attacks with motion end up making it look less annoying but yeah, it sucks. No thoughts on Nero's guitar situation as I've not yet used her outfit.


    And I think you forgot but FGO hates PvP. Ranking is PvP. Because you're competing against someone else. We had only one PvP and that was Dead Heat Summer's Race. After that, they completely dropped PvP mechanics entirely.
    Last edited by manafusion; May 4th, 2021 at 12:49 AM.



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  2. #266342
    Best old man Oz1337's Avatar
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    I wasn't talking about a real PVP system, but something like Summer 2 in which you had teams arriving before others. While the implementation was not really good because everybody prioritized the better drops, it was still fun to see certain teams reaching first, and I kinda wanted to see if we could get a top idol based on how much a center unit was used, with unique speech for being first. It would have at least cause some fun interaction with the community, specially for fanart which would have been worth seeing.

  3. #266343
    死徒 Dead Apostle Gold Experience's Avatar
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    We had factions during Guda 2 though

  4. #266344
    Best old man Oz1337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Experience View Post
    We had factions during Guda 2 though
    That too for example, but I remember Summer 2 more because of the Yu-Gi-Oh! references.

  5. #266345
    ~~~ manafusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gold Experience View Post
    We had factions during Guda 2 though
    Oh wow, I forgot about that, huh. Thanks for the reminder.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Oz1337 View Post
    I wasn't talking about a real PVP system, but something like Summer 2 in which you had teams arriving before others. While the implementation was not really good because everybody prioritized the better drops, it was still fun to see certain teams reaching first, and I kinda wanted to see if we could get a top idol based on how much a center unit was used, with unique speech for being first. It would have at least cause some fun interaction with the community, specially for fanart which would have been worth seeing.
    I see. Well, that definitely would've been worth seeing. Though, your sentencing was kinda off since it kinda read as if every Servant are given a rank. If it were just pre-determined Servant idol groups, then that'd be fine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You know, that reminded me that Salt River were there for both Guda2 and Dead Heat Summer's Race. Man, I miss Salt River as much as you guys do.
    Last edited by manafusion; May 3rd, 2021 at 02:49 PM.



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  6. #266346
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manafusion View Post
    My main point. Also, the fact that it's available earlier than usual coupled with the fact that people who don't have the event CEs would probably hit the 50k point requirement mark way sooner means that the whole design was meant for them, not us. We didn't lose anything substantial as people with event CEs. We cleared the shop faster than those without and we're just slightly behind them in terms of point farming. The fact that you're making a fuss about it is sad when you don't consider it as an overall encompassing situation.
    Hrm, yes, locking later event fights behind arbitrary point requirements is totally not a bad thing, because we get the slightly nicer deal of having permanent welfare earlier in the event despite all but 1 of her ascension materials locked at the 100k of each point type requirement and all but 1 of her copies at the 500k of each point type requirement. Or, hear me out, there's no fucking reason to lock out any of these things or later fights behind yet another point requirement unrelated to story progression.

    I don't have anything positive or negative about the 3 point system. It's just another way to make people not run the same battle over and over, I guess.
    Yeah, just run the same 3 fights until you unlock the 2nd tier farming spots, then farm those until you unlock the best tier farming spots. Time gating and this style are equally shit ways of locking progression, but time gating isn't restrictive to people that aren't logging in every day just to advance the event at a snail's pace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  7. #266347
    死徒 Dead Apostle astagadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendant View Post
    You would never only get 1 hit off of Castoria tho? tf
    Well I tried Castoria. Sigurd hit her then Arthur launched his NP, Castoria dead lol

  8. #266348
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Just use her NP later in a chain unless you know that extra 30%-50% Attack Up is going to matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  9. #266349
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Pendant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astagadragon View Post
    Well I tried Castoria. Sigurd hit her then Arthur launched his NP, Castoria dead lol
    What I'm saying is why aren't you just overcharging her?

  10. #266350
    ~~~ manafusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Hrm, yes, locking later event fights behind arbitrary point requirements is totally not a bad thing, because we get the slightly nicer deal of having permanent welfare earlier in the event despite all but 1 of her ascension materials locked at the 100k of each point type requirement and all but 1 of her copies at the 500k of each point type requirement. Or, hear me out, there's no fucking reason to lock out any of these things or later fights behind yet another point requirement unrelated to story progression.



    Yeah, just run the same 3 fights until you unlock the 2nd tier farming spots, then farm those until you unlock the best tier farming spots. Time gating and this style are equally shit ways of locking progression, but time gating isn't restrictive to people that aren't logging in every day just to advance the event at a snail's pace.
    Unless your goal was to laze around and only do story missions (to which I get your complaint but can't sympathize), the fact that you're still gonna unlock it by the start of Week 2 makes no difference. Right now, I'm getting about 50k points per best farming quest run. So, from unlock, you only need 10~11 runs to cap it making unlocking the final quests more of a "home stretch" rather than an actual necessity to unlock before yet another mountain to grind. Oh, did you know that hitting 500k on Buster unlocks the Arts point farming node and vice versa? So, you really only need to hit 500k in two point ladders to slowly unlock the third. So, I still don't even know why you're making a fuss about it outside "it looks bad because I want everything to go at my pace". Also, it's not arbitrary when the event is literally a "raise your idol" event. Not having point restrictions to indicate the "level of proficiency" is more weird. "You wanna be able to stand on the stage with the top idols? You gotta be at their level, not below." That's what I got from it. As a mechanic, it's neither good or bad. It doesn't fully sell the experience but it doesn't detract from it as well. But at least I understand why they did it.

    I understand that you hate wasting apples farming inefficient nodes. But if that's the case, the fact that you're dallying on said inefficient nodes whilst complaining about it... isn't that more inefficient? Push yourself to reach the unlock requirement and, suddenly, things look a lot easier. Way easier than it should be. I can attest to that given that I just finished my Green point farm and am moving onto the rest.

    EDIT: Going through the requirements, the lowest one needs to unlock the final farming quests is either 500k Red + 450k Green or 500k Green + 450k Blue. From there, you farm enough to gather the last mat not listed via said best farming quest and unlock the rest of the nodes.
    Last edited by manafusion; May 4th, 2021 at 12:35 AM.



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  11. #266351
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Double Castoria Space Ishtar No Sweat

    Back to point grinding bleh

  12. #266352
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    It never ceases to amaze me how you completely miss the point manafusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by manafusion View Post
    Unless your goal was to laze around and only do story missions (to which I get your complaint but can't sympathize),
    Literally not a point I was making but okay, just ignore that I pointed out a difference in the point requirement required by the story and the point requirement needed by the 2nd and final tier of farming spots. In case you still don't get it, there is no reason to further lock the farming spots by point requirements when the story already serves as a block by itself.

    the fact that you're still gonna unlock it by the start of Week 2 makes no difference. Right now, I'm getting about 50k points per best farming quest run. So, from unlock, you only need 10~11 runs to cap it making unlocking the final quests more of a "home stretch" rather than an actual necessity to unlock before yet another mountain to grind. Oh, did you know that hitting 500k on Buster unlocks the Arts point farming node and vice versa? So, you really only need to hit 500k in two point ladders to slowly unlock the third.
    With 350% bonus you're averaging something like 20k for 2 points in the 2nd tier of farming spots, with the initial spots being even worse. You get significantly worse yields because only 2 CEs can be purchased from the event shop with the remaining copies locked behind each points ladder at 300k. So no, it's not taking "only 10-15" runs, it's taking pretty much 7-8 days worth of AP to access the better farming spots when there is no reason other than being a dick to further locking the better farming spots to a requirement beyond story completion in the first place.

    So, I still don't even know why you're making a fuss about it outside "it looks bad because I want everything to go at my pace". Also, it's not arbitrary when the event is literally a "raise your idol" event. Not having point restrictions to indicate the "level of proficiency" is more weird. "You wanna be able to stand on the stage with the top idols? You gotta be at their level, not below." That's what I got from it. As a mechanic, it's neither good or bad. It doesn't fully sell the experience but it doesn't detract from it as well. But at least I understand why they did it.

    I understand that you hate wasting apples farming inefficient nodes. But if that's the case, the fact that you're dallying on said inefficient nodes whilst complaining about it... isn't that more inefficient? Push yourself to reach the unlock requirement and, suddenly, things look a lot easier. Way easier than it should be. I can attest to that given that I just finished my Green point farm and am moving onto the rest.

    EDIT: Going through the requirements, the lowest one needs to unlock the final farming quests is either 500k Red + 450k Green or 500k Green + 450k Blue. From there, you farm enough to gather the last mat not listed via said best farming quest and unlock the rest of the nodes.
    I'm calling out a shit event design for being shit because "it's not as bad as other events" is not a defense and only a mindset of someone used to being grateful for crumbs for years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  13. #266353
    ~~~ manafusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me how you completely miss the point manafusion.



    Literally not a point I was making but okay, just ignore that I pointed out a difference in the point requirement required by the story and the point requirement needed by the 2nd and final tier of farming spots. In case you still don't get it, there is no reason to further lock the farming spots by point requirements when the story already serves as a block by itself.



    With 350% bonus you're averaging something like 20k for 2 points in the 2nd tier of farming spots, with the initial spots being even worse. You get significantly worse yields because only 2 CEs can be purchased from the event shop with the remaining copies locked behind each points ladder at 300k. So no, it's not taking "only 10-15" runs, it's taking pretty much 7-8 days worth of AP to access the better farming spots when there is no reason other than being a dick to further locking the better farming spots to a requirement beyond story completion in the first place.



    I'm calling out a shit event design for being shit because "it's not as bad as other events" is not a defense and only a mindset of someone used to being grateful for crumbs for years.
    20k for each of the 2 points when doing the second best farming quests, you mean. That's 40k total. You're just making it sound bad because you're not accumulating the two halves together. Sure, it's still less than the best farming quest. But it's not like you're losing a massive amount that you can't farm. Plus, as alluded to in the edit, you could easily just focus farm either one of the two second best quests to get the minimum required rewards to unlock one of the three best farming quests and proceed to clear the rest with it. It's not a big deal.

    Understandable about the point boost CE being locked behind points. That, I mentioned already in another post that it could've been better. But also, there's a reason why we're getting apples from milestones alongside farming quest first clears. They're there to supplement those who didn't get lucky enough to get CEs via drops before the point milestone. Even then, I've only used 1~2 point boost CEs throughout most of my farming to unlock the best farming quests and only just started using all my MLB + 2 non-LB CEs after unlocking them all. Therefore, only if you're really adamant on using apples only for the best farming quest will you have issues. I used a bit on the second best farming quests. I progressed. I don't whine about how point-gating sucks when the tools are there and I need to put in a bit of effort. I make the effort to do what I know is best for me in the long run. The CE in milestone reward problem? Already had my first 300k at around close to Day 4. Still sucks to use some apples to get it but it's not a major issue.

    I think you're mistaking "mindset of someone used to being grateful for crumbs" for "understanding how easy FGO events are in general". Point farms are just that, point farms. You put in more effort (apples), you get better results. The entire gating system is just a matter of getting you to put in your apples earlier than usual. In the end, you should be able to clear the entire point ladder easily once you unlock the best farming quests so just put in that extra effort to reach there. Rather, I'd argue that you are the one who's more complacent about things when it doesn't go your way. FGO's event farm has always been very casual, outside of lottery events. So, when the game now asks you to use your apples earlier for farming (which they clearly give quite a bit from both the milestone rewards and quest first clears), it's apparently "shit design" to you. I'd be with you if it were a truly bad design but I'm here seeing it as that it ain't. It's just a minor speed bump to the usual routine, nothing that makes me want to pull my hair out or anything out of how bad they made farming become. Maybe pull that silver spoon out of your mouth and start making a bit more effort.


    EDIT: On one hand, I'm in GBGW and am seeing the worst of gameplay designs. Back-to-back weekly events with new gacha banners and surprise banners where the event structure is more or less a copy-pasta of the last one and clearing shop is only saved for people who spend HC (their version of gems). Not to mention how many things one has to gacha out for a competent suit to use in some of the hard battles. The game even has to give free gacha 4* parts (equivalent to standard 5* in this game) all the time... because of that design structure. And people are defending the game because "free shit good" without understanding how the system's set up and what is being done is more like a fix to the system's bad aspects whilst devaluing 4* parts. Meanwhile we have FGO's casual events where they try to keep things a bit thematic to break up the monotonous loop of the game and when it results in just a mild increase in effort needed to full clear, there're people complaining about it. I can't comprehend people.
    Last edited by manafusion; May 4th, 2021 at 09:05 AM.



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  14. #266354
    Beloved of Moon floatimel's Avatar
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    People are allowed to complain about and be unhappy with events if the style of the event or its mechanisms aren't to their liking, it's...not that big a deal, and it's not that deep or hard to get. I for one don't like triple points ladder events because they're not very fun for me, since I don't enjoy having to loop-grind multiple times over to unlock things; I just grabbed perm Idol Ecchan, ascended her once, and bounced because the event style Is Not One I Vibe With.

    It's okay for people to be unhappy with stuff that isn't in their wheelhouse, and that's all there is to it.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    And you still miss the point while spamming a text wall I have no more interest to respond to. The point requirement for the story is not the issue I'm raising. For the last time, it's the arbitrary 200K and 500K of each point type to access better farming spots that is the issue, especially when important event stuff is locked behind the time to even reach those fights, such as the additional point CEs, MIXA ascension mats, and NP copies. A sane event design would not require you to spam the literal shittiest spots more than what's needed to progress story to access better farming spots. If you still can't understand this, don't bother responding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  16. #266356
    ~~~ manafusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    And you still miss the point while spamming a text wall I have no more interest to respond to. The point requirement for the story is not the issue I'm raising. For the last time, it's the arbitrary 200K and 500K of each point type to access better farming spots that is the issue, especially when important event stuff is locked behind the time to even reach those fights, such as the additional point CEs, MIXA ascension mats, and NP copies. A sane event design would not require you to spam the literal shittiest spots more than what's needed to progress story to access better farming spots. If you still can't understand this, don't bother responding.
    Well, I was also clearly talking about your issue with the 500k point restriction situation. Getting to the 200k point restriction wasn't hard or difficult, getting the 500k one required more effort. I was also saying that they made it a speed bump so you're supposed to be farming the earlier ones (more specifically, the second best farming quests) in order to have an easier time when you unlock the hardest quest.

    3 point system? Not really a major issue outside of maybe doing different quests to gather another type of point/s.

    Stuffs locked behind point requirement? Ascension mats used to have that situation, Meijin Isshin had the last unlock require 600k points. Oniland needed 400k points, 100k more than the current event.

    In terms of point boost CEs, it could've been better. I'll say it again as many times as it needs to be. It's not as massive a problem when your Servants end up having a decent portion of the bonuses as well but it clearly could be better in that front.

    NP copies locked behind point system? If you're on your way to unlock the best farming quests, it's more like a battle and reward that gets unlocked along the way.

    Minimum points needed to start farming one of the best quest and unlocking the rest? 950k points split 500k/450k across two points, Buster and Quick respectively. Even if you want to get 300k Arts points just for the CE, it's something you can easily work towards once you get 300k points on the first two, Buster and Quick. Either hits 300k, you get another CE and boost your farm.

    Sounds tedious? It's really just minor additional effort. It's not like it's asking you to set an alarm for some random guerilla quest that pops up then goes away and you lost your bonus for eternity. If I can have all the quests unlocked already since yesterday, when all I put in was about 6 silvers and all the bronze apples, I think it's safe to say that your progression is only limited by the amount of effort you put into the event. It sounds tedious until you realise that it's just steps along the way to getting the full clear for the event. Now that I'm getting 50k points per best farming quest run, I don't even need to use apples. From my own experience, the entire point restriction system and rewards on the better farming quests signifies more of a shift of apple usage where, instead of using it late, you're using it early. There's nothing else that's actually tedious or horrible about it. You burn a few apples early on, get the better farming node early then enjoy life until event ends.
    Last edited by manafusion; May 4th, 2021 at 11:28 AM.



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    Best old man Oz1337's Avatar
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    I wonder if we will get that weird costume MIXA gets at the end of the story tomorrow.

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    Not vibing with Shuten's idol song tbh. It doesn't even sound like Shuten.

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    Haven't heard them all yet but Jeanne's is the strongest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendant View Post
    What I'm saying is why aren't you just overcharging her?
    Wait, did overcharging work on NP1?

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