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Thread: Lord El-Melloi II Case Files

  1. #4041
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Sad that with the only known practitioner's Magic Circuit is damaged beyond repair, there's not much future for Shell Projection.



  2. #4042
    On the Holy Night Reign's Avatar
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    Well if it's a recently published thesis then someone is still looking into Shell Projection, since this is a few years after CF and therefore the NY special.

  3. #4043
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Can't Amleth Wotan also use Shell Projection though? Sure he took credit and isn't as capable as Camus with it, but he can still perform the basics of it. So it's not like it's been lost entirely like the Zepter family.
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  4. #4044
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Well, last time we saw Amleth, he was detained, with all of his belongings confiscated by Melvin thanks to his debt. I doubt he could keep practicing Magecraft in that situation. But if the thesis is indeed made after the incident, then I suppose there may still be hope.



  5. #4045
    Wouldnt a thesis damage the mystery of it?

  6. #4046
    There will still be secrets. Damaging mystery of it is waver's territory to reveal key aspects of it.

  7. #4047
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    They probably found a leeway on preserving it, in light of what we've learned from recent volumes. Back during Age of Gods, magi practiced magecraft with the aid from divine beings, with the one I could immediately named being Medea and Circe with Hecate. Some Magecrafts outside of Clock Tower uses alternate resources other than from the Root. Like Divine Bodies in Japan. Even Clock Tower draws the energy necessary to perform Magecraft from Spiritual Tomb Albion, with the remains of said Dragon brimming with Mystery. This leads to a conclusion as a way to preserve Mystery; Sense of Worship. A Mystery isn't necessarily need to be unknown to work, it needs to evoke a sense of awe and reverence in people. With that, even if Magecrafts become known worldwide, the wonders it struck to people will keep it functioning, because people knows it's in a place unreachable to them despite it becomes common knowledge. Notice that Magecraft derived from Holy Church isn't said to fade. It's because they have a religion to empower it after all. It's my speculations, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Now that I said those, I wonder what will happen if the people in Clock Tower starts to worship Albion. It's a dragon so it won't lead to them worshipping it. But if they do, then maybe that could also prevent the decline. There are many dragons who are also divine in Chinese myths, so it's not unheard of.



  8. #4048
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    Wouldnt a thesis damage the mystery of it?
    OFG's already explained enough, but I have to ask. Didn't it occur to you that the Clock Tower wouldn't be a university if this was true?

  9. #4049
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Such a roundabout way of thinking isn't really required, in my opinion.

    Shell Projection is an application of Projection, a concept already well known in Magecraft circles. It already has enough reach that whatever dilution of Mystery would occur by Rin's thesis doesn't matter. The same can be said of most Magecraft theories.

    Yet what a thesis does do, is advance the Magecraft Foundation of the concept. This is enough of a spur that it necessitates the Mage's Association in the first place. As Comun points out, the Clock Tower exists for a reason. If all co-operation did was dilute Mystery, then they wouldn't have an academy in the first place.

  10. #4050
    I think that even if that's the case. Entire full explanation would hurt it's mystery like the reason why luvia snapped on waver for trying to reveal everything about her magecraft

  11. #4051
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    Magi are a secret society, so publishing a thesis shouldn't hurt the Mystery that much. And sacrificing some of it for other benefits, like improving your social standing and getting access to better labs/equipment/rare resources/cooperation might be worth it. The objective (probably) is to get as much as you can while revealing as little as possible.
    Last edited by Blastedspider; February 17th, 2022 at 11:11 AM.

  12. #4052
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    Spell copyright is a decent source of income, as per Adventures volume 1.

  13. #4053
    Wings of the Sunlit Sky Hermitfold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    Spell copyright is a decent source of income, as per Adventures volume 1.
    Wasn't it even mentioned before that with the Tohsaka's family patent income?

  14. #4054
    屍鬼 Ghoul Verse's Avatar
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    I'm curious, does Adventures Vol 1 have a translation effort going on? I was looking at Rin's wiki and given that the Corpse King's wiki page is being updated as more of the Atlas Contract is translated, and her page has details from Volumes 1 and 2, I wondered if there was any place that had them translated. This seems like a good place to ask.

  15. #4055
    On the Holy Night Reign's Avatar
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    No TLs but Comun is summarizing them

  16. #4056
    屍鬼 Ghoul Verse's Avatar
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    Gotcha, thanks!

  17. #4057
    Quote Originally Posted by Petrikow View Post
    Such a roundabout way of thinking isn't really required, in my opinion.

    Shell Projection is an application of Projection, a concept already well known in Magecraft circles. It already has enough reach that whatever dilution of Mystery would occur by Rin's thesis doesn't matter. The same can be said of most Magecraft theories.

    Yet what a thesis does do, is advance the Magecraft Foundation of the concept. This is enough of a spur that it necessitates the Mage's Association in the first place. As Comun points out, the Clock Tower exists for a reason. If all co-operation did was dilute Mystery, then they wouldn't have an academy in the first place.
    Ive never voiced the question on clock tower and research before but I have thought it (to comun), I mean if luvia is willing to threaten harm on waver for just talking bout it and calling him a destroyer of mystery for that, it gives conflicting signals to me

  18. #4058
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle All fictions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    Wouldnt a thesis damage the mystery of it?
    I knew there was a post about it:
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    case files vol 8
    "A completed magic formula is not something that can be carelessly constructed with theory alone. Not all compatibility between magecraft is good. If you combine some magecraft you'd naturally expect blowback or it going out control. Generally the more complete and stronger the formula, the more difficult it is to put in play."
    Suddenly, Flat came to mind.
    An unusual ability that allows him to improvise magecraft, constructing a foundation with each use. My teacher once said, in exchange, Flat finds it difficult to use the same magecraft twice.
    If that was the case, the crazy-wall infront of my teacher would be a formula like one of Flat's arrangements that would have an enormous time and material cost as well as being very difficult to tinker with.
    "There's a metaphor known as threading the needle. By my analysis, what this formula's trying to do is just abnormal. Ahhh, It's the product of a someone rightfully called a genius who kept diligently calculating. It's not something you can make with just great magic circuits. You only arrive at something like this with an alarming tenacity and obsession to repeat a process over and over until something clicked. And then, no, even then, you end up with a considerably limited magecraft that depends on the time and the place."
    "Time and place?"
    For example, the position of a star.
    For example, leylines.
    Various factors influence magecraft. That's why the locations of Clock Tower classrooms are chosen with much care. If one were to fuse multiple formulas, the factors necessary would also be fused. A formula that works in the spring cannot be cocurrently run with a formula that only runs in winter.
    You run into this problem every time you try to create a new formula. Therefore, magi can earn a living from copyright fees when they create useful new formulas and patent them with Policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    Punching out some nerd doesn't make you a better magus.

  19. #4059
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermitfold View Post
    Wasn't it even mentioned before that with the Tohsaka's family patent income?
    Indeed, and aside from land holdings that Kirei squandered, it's basically Rin's sole income now, which is good, cause otherwise her magecraft would bankrupt her.
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  20. #4060
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Indeed, and aside from land holdings that Kirei squandered, it's basically Rin's sole income now, which is good, cause otherwise her magecraft would bankrupt her.
    >Financial status of the Tohsaka household
    Nasu: The Mage's Association in London (the Clock Tower) deals with patents associated with all things magical, Rin's father Tokiomi holds the patent for a special formula that simplifies magic, for which he receives a patent fee every month. The Tohsaka household was built entirely on this income. With Rin not doing anything in particular to earn an income herself and Tokiomi's formula slowly becoming obsolete over time, the Tohsaka household's financial situation is becoming more and more strenuous by the day. Sometimes I feel like telling Rin that she needs to get herself to London and figure something out quick!
    inb4 Waver's patent rush is what's making Tokiomi's formula obsolete
    Quote Originally Posted by FSF 5, Chapter 14: Gold and Lions I
    Dumas flashed a fearless grin at Flat and Jack as he rattled off odd turns of phrase.
    "And most importantly, it's me who'll be doing the cooking."
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.


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