So I've been playing this recently...

[ResidentSeagull]

I've been slacking on SMTV to play Hades and I have to say it's unexpectedly addicting. Though all the RNG is killing me, I got a good build ONE TIME and I lost to some bullshit.

The Rogue-like giveth, the Rogue-like taketh away.

[eddyak]

Was feeling smug about having nearly completed a run in Kenshi- got my base set up, my guys all have combat stats in the 50s+, all my equipment is masterworks, sitting on a million Cats I can't spend.

Then I remembered I had basically set the difficulty to half- hunger, dismemberment, damage and so on.

Time to rectify that. Hard mode (not just-lost-an-arm-and-starving character, I'm not a masochist). One gal and her dog against the world, let's go. I wanna see how a martial arts run goes, I've heard they're absolutely bonkers.

[Ideofago]

I really like Hades, but I feel it's gotten boring. The abilities don't change my playstyle enough for it to feel like a different run, and it's too easy to just get the boons I want. The story's still pretty nice and the game loop keeps me chugging along, but the whole 'roguelike' appeal is not there anymore for me.

[pinetree]

Have you been trying different weapons and aspects? That's what kept me going until the epilogue.

[Ideofago]

I try them, and it just feels worse. Like I'm playing the same game but the game loop has just been made worse.

[pinetree]

By the time I was getting tired of the mechanics I unlocked Aspects and started getting double boons more often, so the game stayed fresh all throughout. Adding heat was also great, specially the changes to the bosses.
I did stop before 100%, but I got close, and I still pick it up for a run or two sometimes.

[Ideofago]

The heat mechanic has been interesting as well, and the game itself is just so fun that I still play it even when it feels boring. But at the same time, it's ehh.

[Deathhappens]

Few dozen runs later, I think I'd feel a lot better about Hades if I wasn't being set up to fail, so to speak.
Maybe someone (clearly insane)'s cleared the game on the first go, but considering I'm still unlocking entire new mechanics a few hours later I don't think the game really gives you anything remotely resembling a chance before it feels like you've died enough, in which case why even try?

[ResidentSeagull]

I think I got my first winning run after about two or so hours of playtime, which I attribute to the fact that I spent an impressive amount of time on Enter the Gungeon, to which Hades' measly bullet hell simply cannot compare.

Although that might have been bad for my own enjoyment of the game, as I couldn't stick to the game for long after that. No clear goals anymore and all that.

[Ideofago]

Few dozen runs later, I think I'd feel a lot better about Hades if I wasn't being set up to fail, so to speak.
Maybe someone (clearly insane)'s cleared the game on the first go, but considering I'm still unlocking entire new mechanics a few hours later I don't think the game really gives you anything remotely resembling a chance before it feels like you've died enough, in which case why even try?

Story progression, fun gameplay. Also, Hades is like one of *the* most forgiving roguelikes there are. So many permanent upgrades, like SO FUCKING MANY permanent upgrades. Slay the Spire has none whatsoever, and Enter The Gungeon only has an elevator system that can be more of a detriment than anything. You're not being set up to fail, you're being set up to succeed.

[Deathhappens]

Yeah, eventually. You can luck into a good build your first time playing Slay the Spire or Binding of Isaac, it's (all but) literally impossible to win the first time through in Hades.

[pinetree]

Ok but why does that mattter? Why does it matter if the first run is impossible if you're going to play multiple anyway and the game rewards you for doing so?

[Ideofago]

The point is playing multiple. Can't really fault it for being made around its point.

[Orange]

Yeah, eventually. You can luck into a good build your first time playing Slay the Spire or Binding of Isaac, it's (all but) literally impossible to win the first time through in Hades.

I'm pretty sure it is possible to beat Hades on the first run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKepf4jyn4o

There are even special dialogue programmed for that.

[Ideofago]

It's a speedrun category.

[TomPen94]

Hades Special Dialogue Any%

[Ideofago]

Nah, it's actually called Fresh Save%.

[Deathhappens]

Ok but why does that mattter? Why does it matter if the first run is impossible if you're going to play multiple anyway and the game rewards you for doing so?

Because if I fail I want it to be a consequence of my (lack of) skills, not because the game decided I haven't died enough yet.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm pretty sure it is possible to beat Hades on the first run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKepf4jyn4o

There are even special dialogue programmed for that.

"all but" impossible

Reading is hard.

[pinetree]

Yeah but we're talking about the first run here, I really don't see the issue. Even if you have a problem with the game "not letting you win", it is solved by playing like 2 or 3 more runs.

Unless you're still failing after the dozens of runs you mentioned, then I gotta say it's definitely due to your lack of skills and not the game.

[Deathhappens]

As I said, entire new mechanics get unlocked after every run, like keepsakes or meeting Charon/Eurydice/Sisyphus etc. So yeah, after dozens of runs I only now have something resembling an fair chance to clear without speedrun-tier limitations. And who knows, maybe there's even more new mechanics I haven't seen yet.