So I've been playing this recently...

[Imperial]

And the ZWEIHANDER!!!1! bestweaponinthegamedont@me

It's been meme'd to hell and back, but the Zweihander is a legit great weapon. Good range, knockdown, and power for a weapon that can be obtained very early and takes relatively little stat investment.

It's no Baemore, though.

[pinetree]

I did get zwei on my first venture around that cemetery but sadly it needs too much STR.

[eddyak]

It's been meme'd to hell and back, but the Zweihander is a legit great weapon. Good range, knockdown, and power for a weapon that can be obtained very early and takes relatively little stat investment.

It's no Baemore, though.

It's also the most casual weapon in the game, and has led thousands of people to think they're good at Dark Souls because they watched an OnlyAfro video once.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Soo any recommendation for hack and slash dungeon crawling game like Torchlight? Kinda want to play Path of Exile but are there anything else?

[Deathhappens]

It's also the most casual weapon in the game, and has led thousands of people to think they're good at Dark Souls because they watched an OnlyAfro video once.

I'll have you know I came up with the noobiest build of Havel/Tarkus armor mix, Zweihander and Grass Crest Shield all on my own. Only thing looking at builds changed was adding ROFP so I didn't fatroll all over the place.

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Soo any recommendation for hack and slash dungeon crawling game like Torchlight? Kinda want to play Path of Exile but are there anything else?

Silverfall was fun.

[eddyak]

I'll have you know I came up with the noobiest build of Havel/Tarkus armor mix, Zweihander and Grass Crest Shield all on my own. Only thing looking at builds changed was adding ROFP so I didn't fatroll all over the place.

If you're wearing Havel & Tarkus gear, you're a beauty, and I have no quarrel.

[Aozaki-desu]

get a room

[Mattias]

So, I've never played a Souls game, so I may be super off about this, but I never got the appeal of making a character based entirely around a single weapon, when the game locks weapons behind progression. If you do a run with starter gear that's one thing, but making a build solely for a weapon you only get 80% of the way through a game (because the best weapons are always at the end) seems like it misses the point of trying to do a run with that weapon as the main. Unless you go in with NG+ but by that point you've already leveled so much there's no real sense of accomplishment.

[Aozaki-desu]

in general thats only the issue with a handful of weapons
due to general non-linearity of the games a skilled player will be able to traverse much of the game with little issue to obtain the desired item very early
also the premise of the best weapons = latest weapons is entirely false for the souls games

the dark souls 1 is a good example, zweihander and claymore - the two most common weapons shilled for new players are very early in the game, and they are easily accessible for new players
they also happen to be one of the most optimal weapons by every metric of the game
but there is also much cooler ravelord sword that only veteran player can obtain because it requires a knowledge of how to get into lategame area and return from it - all in 5 minutes walk from the main hub

the only weapons that are truly locked behind progression are weapons in completely inaccessible areas and boss weapons

naturally the entire thing hinges upon how well non-linearity is implemented in each particular game

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oh and naturally items can be exchanged online, nothing stops your friend giving you lategame weapon in the very beginning of the game
jolly cooperation and all that

[Pendant]

So, I've never played a Souls game, so I may be super off about this, but I never got the appeal of making a character based entirely around a single weapon, when the game locks weapons behind progression. If you do a run with starter gear that's one thing, but making a build solely for a weapon you only get 80% of the way through a game (because the best weapons are always at the end) seems like it misses the point of trying to do a run with that weapon as the main. Unless you go in with NG+ but by that point you've already leveled so much there's no real sense of accomplishment.

The reason why people plan around equipment is because it allows you to min/max your stats, weight, and poise to the decimal point. This does not mean that you're stuck using your fists until you arrive to the point where you are able to obtain the weapon you intend to use. Say I'm planning on making a character built around Velka's Rapier, that doesn't mean I can't do anything until I make it to the Painted World. I can easily use the Estoc in the meantime. People just do it because they want to squeeze out every last bit of optimization out of their character.

It's also largely a moot point because veteran PvPers just Cheat Engine their entire builds right from the jump so they'll already have everything they want anyway. Approve of it or not, that's just the way it goes. Not like Souls PvP is really that relevant anymore but that's just a quick rundown.

[eddyak]

I never got the appeal of making a character based entirely around a single weapon

I think like that too!

Which is why I curse myself by grabbing every possible weapon that can be used with the build I'm going for, on almost every run. My Strength characters' inventories always look like the headquarters of Overcompensators Anonymous.

[Deathhappens]

So, I've never played a Souls game, so I may be super off about this, but I never got the appeal of making a character based entirely around a single weapon, when the game locks weapons behind progression. If you do a run with starter gear that's one thing, but making a build solely for a weapon you only get 80% of the way through a game (because the best weapons are always at the end) seems like it misses the point of trying to do a run with that weapon as the main. Unless you go in with NG+ but by that point you've already leveled so much there's no real sense of accomplishment.

Wholeheartedly agree, I never "get it" when people do that in other RPG's, but like Aozaki said you can pretty much run in and grab whatever weapon you wanted in the first hour of the game. Plus, in DS, you don't really use weapons for their stats but rather for their movesets. So if you're set on using e.g. Quelaag's Furysword (boss weapon from midway into the game) you'd just use the regular Longsword or the Black Knight Sword until you got there. There's no (or at least very little) "upwards mobility" when it comes to weapons like other JRPGs where you need to swap for a better one every couple levels, even the Broken Sword you start the game with can be endgame material if you upgrade it enough. And due to the skill-based nature of the game people can and have beaten it naked regardless.

[Pendant]

Don't really see the parallels between a Furysword and a Black Knight Sword, but okay

[Mattias]

Now that I've finished FF7R I need to decide what to play next, and this conversation makes me want to crack open that Bloodbourne that's been sitting on my dashboard for the last two years.

[Deathhappens]

Don't really see the parallels between a Furysword and a Black Knight Sword, but okay

Aren't they all one-handed swords? I might've confused something with something else, it's been a while.

[Pendant]

Aren't they all one-handed swords? I might've confused something with something else, it's been a while.

They are (although many people prefer the BKS's two-handed moveset over its one-handed one, though this is beside the point) but the BKS is Strength scaling weapon with a high Strength requirement (14 just to two-hand) and the Furysword is a DEX scaling weapon. These are two weapons which probably wouldn't fit on the same character.

[Rue]

All this DS weapon talk reminded me of my love of the DS1 Halberd & disappointed on its tweaks in DS2. I've yet to play DS3 (ended up burnt out on DS2) still & don't know how good/bad its version is.

[Aozaki-desu]

they arent ds1 levels of op if thats what you are looking for
ds3 is r1 spam game for a reason

[eddyak]

All this DS weapon talk reminded me of my love of the DS1 Halberd & disappointed on its tweaks in DS2. I've yet to play DS3 (ended up burnt out on DS2) still & don't know how good/bad its version is.

DS3 is literally just DS1 but with less thought and consideration. Rolls basically cost zero stamina and can be spammed, weapon swings basically cost zero stamina and can be spammed (as long as they aren't heavy weapons, heavier weapons got a little bit shafted in the much faster game), Estus is easier to get off, and all the while PvE has more ways to punish you for spamming dodge rolls or tossing back estus, while PvP has a lot less.

But yeah, it isn't as unbalanced as DS1, mostly thanks to getting rid of DS1 poise, thank fuck.

[SpoonyViking]

Huh. Would you say DS 3 is more like a standard action game, then, eddyak? I'm thinking something like DMC, MGR, God Hand, Chaos Legion, etc.