General News Thread

[Kamera]

and undermining foreign democratically elected governments i imagine

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and profiting off war crimes too, i'd guess

[Tobias]

Nonsense. These days I hear we are nefariously undermine our own government by the treacherous and insidiously undemocratic method of voting in primaries.

when will our evil conniving end

[Trubo]

A lot of my major problems with Bernie is that even the parts of his program I agree with he never actually seems to have a real method of bringing them about beyond yelling at people till they agree with him, which has not proven effective.

Bernie explains himself just fine, quit repeating talking head points because you don't want to listen.

Jobs getting outsourced overseas? Implement fines, tax breaks, and other measures to incentivize jobs stay in the country instead. Healthcare costs fucked up beyond all belief? Implement a single payer system. The power of Executive Orders is pretty far-reaching nowadays, and can be sufficient until Congress actually gets some legislation passed.

Before you pivot back to

OK bernie, were gonna do medicare for all. fine. But you dont want to abolish the filibuster. so lets say all the cards fall your way and you end up with 51 blue senators. how are you going to get 9 republican votes

You're asking the guy who has the best track record in the House and Senate in getting both parties to sit down and discuss changes that need to be made to various bills how he's going to get both parties to sit down and talk? People constantly bring up how few bills directly sponsored by Bernie that have been passed since he's been in Congress, yet forget that no other person comes close to the amendments to other bills he's been able to get added. One key example? The one that he and Clyburn added that helped make ACA a little less shit for people in rural communities by expanding funding to rural hospitals.

That, more than anything itself, speaks to me as a good quality for the President since that role is more a managerial role than anything else.

[Tobias]

just to clarify then. it is therefor your actual belief that the current members of the republican caucus, and or the members that will replace them in the 2020 election will therefor be willing to agree to vote for a national single payer system by 2024.

I just want to clarify that is your official stance?

[Pendant]

You are aware that Republicans will be as opposed to any sort of Obamacare expansion project no matter how minor as they would be to even the most ambitious portions of Bernie's agenda? So the idea that Bernie's plans face difficulty in finding passage really is a non-argument. I guess you could pull a Klobuchar and just say, "well, I won't be doing shit." In which case, fair enough. I do suppose such an "agenda" is more realistic, but boy, is it useless.

But, of course, all of this is forgetting the area where the president does have broad leeway to impose his will: foreign policy. And Bernie is the only one who has an understanding of solidarity and of the incredible damage that American empire causes all over the world. In Biden, for instance, I don't see any appetite to question the national security consensus blob at all, which would mean a continuation of US adventurism abroad.

[Tobias]

yes, which is why the plan for the public option is to have it passed by way of budget reconciliation, which is entirely doable. See how that is a feasible plan that can actually be put into practice? It has steps that can be followed and put into place in the current political climate?

See if bernie's plan had been something like "well, we are going to take the senate, hold the house, eliminate the fillibuster, and ram it through on a party line vote" I might not agree with it but I could understand it. It follows a plausible path. However his current plan is to shame and brow beat the RNC to such an extent that at min 9 members of the republican senate minority choose to vote for M4A. which is absurd. to put that another way, Marc, that is the difference between warren and sanders

[Pendant]

I agree with getting rid of the filibuster. Bernie is too much of an institutionalist for my liking. But many of his plans ate doable day 1. Free college and student loan forgiveness can be done via executive order, and even Warren concurs here.

But, again, I wish I could understand why there is a failure to reckon with US foreign policy when it is the area the president has the most unchecked power to exert his will.

[Tobias]

actually student loan forgiveness is pretty debateable if it can be done by EO. many of the institutions that oversee such are in fact private institutions, such as banks. a broad EO would likely be thrown out by the supreme court. you could make some smaller changes strictly from the federal side, which is also what Biden has promised to do.

[Pendant]

Yes, there would be court challenges. You think they haven't taken that into account? And, once again, what about foreign policy?

[mAc Chaos]

Can't you use budget reconciliation to also pass M4A? I think that's what Bernie actually suggested.

[Trubo]

just to clarify then. it is therefor your actual belief that the current members of the republican caucus, and or the members that will replace them in the 2020 election will therefor be willing to agree to vote for a national single payer system by 2024.

I just want to clarify that is your official stance?

If McConnell's still in place, I don't expect much of anything from any non-Trump administration to pass. I'd still rather have Bernie as a President since he'll represent the views that need to be represented rather than whoever Biden's VP ends up becoming.

But, if McConnell is not an issue, then yes, I think Bernie is uniquely positioned to work with Republicans in a way that Biden never could be. Biden has shown time and time again that he'll capitulate to Republican interests because, at his core, he's a Republican masquerading as a Democrat, and doesn't really want to fight them on anything. Bernie actually challenges this viewpoint, even if he does ultimately compromise. Case in point, look at the stimulus package that was passed, and note that some of the best provisions on it are related to strong efforts on Bernie's part to get them through, including shutting down arguments from Graham to neuter the unemployment payouts because god forbid low income workers might make a little more on unemployment temporarily.

[Tobias]

Can't you use budget reconciliation to also pass M4A? I think that's what Bernie actually suggested.

certainly not, no. Because of obamacare you can reconcile a public plan on the premise that such would reduce costs of the current healthcare law of PPACA. M4A would be altering the system completely. it would get blocked day one and thrown out with prejudice.

[RacingeR]

But, again, I wish I could understand why there is a failure to reckon with US foreign policy when it is the area the president has the most unchecked power to exert his will.

Eh, if anything, going by how the foreign policy of the US has remained completely unchanged for the last fifty years at minimum, I'd argue that's the area where the president has the least power.

Personally, as a South American, I see no difference whatsoever between Trump and Biden: both are going to be glad to burn my country down to the ground in the altar of the increasingly dubious "US interests".

[Twelveseal]

On a non-political topic, has anyone heard anything about a fairly large meteorite hitting Nigeria in the past few days?

[rxrx]

On a non-political topic, has anyone heard anything about a fairly large meteorite hitting Nigeria in the past few days?

Yeah, but it fizzles out in the face of the virus and the Merica election. Trump is great entertainment as long as he is not my president and keeps his hands off that button.

People are dying, and nobody on top is caring.

[Mcjon01]

Pelosi to Push Vote-by-Mail Funding for States in Next Stimulus

USPS warns it might have to shutter by June as $2 trillion coronavirus stimulus package provides no funding

so that’s the game huh

[Twelveseal]

What the hell?

Is this an April Fool's joke?

[Mcjon01]

Yeah, that sounds like good ol' Gurbanguly Berdymukhamedov

[AsGryffynn]

Nonsense. These days I hear we are nefariously undermine our own government by the treacherous and insidiously undemocratic method of voting in primaries.

when will our evil conniving end

Better you fuck your own land rather than some no-name country across the Atlantic.

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On a non-political topic, has anyone heard anything about a fairly large meteorite hitting Nigeria in the past few days?

I have to tell a former mentor of mine the meteorite she and her husband keep talking about is finally here. Also, it ain't as big as we hoped expected.

[I3uster]

I'm not sure how productive the Biden bashing is at this point. It's pretty unlikely that Sanders is going to miraculously turn this around, and the odds of him getting the nomination from a brokered convention are similarly nil.

People are p much going to choose between Biden, Trump, a write in, or not voting at this point.

I think generally it's smarter to do a write-in but if you're wasting time (like 8 hour wait periods and other fun shenaningans) you might as well not vote. What has to be made clear is that the left wing of the democratic party has to be appeased in future elections and I'm not sure a low turnout by itself will do this. You can see by the case of Hillary that people staying home will just be spun as whatever they wish it to be.

It is painful to say but in general realigning a party to be social democratic instead of neoliberal requires quite a bit more time than the current cycle allows, and way, way, way more base work which will hopefully happen in the aftermath of the elections, as I do not expect the Bernie organizational structure to just disperse (especially with how tied they are to unions by now to allow for a more direct action approach).

Demanding realignment after one centrist failure is just arrogant, after two it starts to look like a real position, especially when you can tack on some wins in regionals to shore it up.

What I can promise you is that a moderate social democrat party is markedly different from a neoliberal party to the point where you're not gonna have to feel disgusted voting for Republicans Light anymore. If that can happen I can't tell you, but considering the alternatives I think it's clear that it needs to happen (and its not exactly a demand for world revolution, 5 of 7 G7 states have social democrat parties of significant size).

Won't be easy seeing 4 more years of Trump but I think that is better than losing hope that things can get better in your country at all.