jfc lol, this when Trump is actually the final death of Reaganism?Originally Posted by Rodyle
jfc lol, this when Trump is actually the final death of Reaganism?
Even in Foreign Policy, Trump is extremely similar to Reagan V1, all bluster and nonsense, no compromise. That Reagan eventually backed down and started working with the USSR does give him some small historical credibility, but that's still really Gorby's push, not Reagan's.
Though yes I will concede that Reagan did still have some personal charisma where Trump has, well, none at all and is literally just riding the wave.
Reagan: "We're going to make government smaller to give you space to build America."
Trump: "Government is big, and we're going to make it a big government for you and not the darkies."
I mean, did you miss the primaries? The thing that basically proved nobody really cares about the Reagan Magic Words anymore?
Fair enough.
The thing that really confuses me about the Republicans is that I can't imagine where they think they'll go after this. Either they throw out the primary results and the resulting schism kills both parties, or they don't, lose with Donald Fucking Trump, and then...?
There is no coherent plan, why would you think there is?
it will be like the uk, except opposite
here the conservatives cant lose ever again
there they can't win ever again
Yes one might imagine so but that then necessitates a shift in political gravity. The Democrats are a "united" front only because the Republicans have moved to such extreme positions that they've forced a lot of people that you'd rightly call conservative across the aisle. My 88 year old grandfather, who is a wholesale racist, is still going to vote Dem purely because of Trump (anecdotal obviously but there you are). In a theoretical scenario where the Republicans collapse, the Democrats aren't really that far behind, and then what? We suddenly have a multiparty system our political structure is literally not designed for?
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Like that all sounds fucking fanciful as I say it but so does Trump being an actual candidate and the UK voting to ditch the EU and well
The shifting is just the window dressing, it doesn't really change that the core message is that 'Trump Government will work for you like Obama Government does for the blacks."
Speaking as one of the hopeless people who've stuck with the LibDems before, through, and after the coalition, I honestly suspect the 2015 blow might have been mortal, no matter how badly Labour falls apart. We could have survived pure antipathy from all the quarters that didn't like what we/Clegg had done, but antipathy being effectively translated into a near-total sweep of our MPs was crushing. We're now an irrelevance, whose chronic funding troubles are deteriorating as a result and will continue to do so, and the climb back toward mattering seems too rocky and steep.
Hopes:
If Labour genuinely and actually collapses, there are sections of that party we could merge with, stealing infrastructure and popularity. It's been mooted a couple of times recently from either end.
If Labour and the Conservatives pull apart toward the farther wings, and there's enough resentment at their and UKIP's various lunacies, and we can rely on new voters or those willing to forgive/forget the coalition (as the youth's our major target demographic) within an election cycle or - at the outside - two, we might at least return to being the centre-ground party of protest. Inoffensive enough to most that they'll go to us when the major parties have incurred the proper degree of hatred and despair. And it's true that 48% of the country wanted to stay, and we're the only national party with an unambiguously positive attitude to Europe, thanks to Corbyn's reluctance and Gisela Stuart. It's possible that they'll gravitate our way.
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I was kind of wondering who you supported
I mean, I'm in Cameron's constituency, so my vote's worth sod all in GEs. We're not turning any decade soon.
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Winner takes all seems like such a stupid concept compared to proportional representation
Aus Feuer ward der Geist geschaffen,
drum schenkt mir süßes Feuer ein!
Die Lust der Lieder und der Waffen,
die Lust der Liebe schenkt mir ein,
der Trauben süßes Sonnenblut,
das Wunder glaubt und Wunder thut!
Welcome to the decadence of the Anglo-Saxon cultural sphere
A multiparty system doesn't sound like a bad idea.
It's not stable. There's a reason we have a 2 party system and it's because the concentration of executive power means that the widest possible coalition is optimal. Even if the Republican party fragments, which I doubt, you'd see another party assembled to attempt a 50%+1 coalition.
The question being what that party would be, or what sort of policy shift a thrice beaten, Stumped Republican party might take. Surely we don't WANT the Democrats to just start winning election after election just because they're the non-insane option.
Last edited by 2Bad; June 29th, 2016 at 06:00 PM.
Probably globalism/nationalism (in an economic sense, not only cultural) where both parties trend towards social benefits but D is free trade and new R is protectionism. Culture wars are over and government size may be ending, so open/closed seems like the next cleavage.
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If you want to think of that as a culture war, I'm fine with that, but in the American sense - where the Culture Wars were a political battle beginning in the mid 80s about the role of religion, public morality, abortion, and sexual issues - they are no longer going to be a main divide in politics.
I also find it hard to believe that the Republicans would simply stop pandering to the religious right, since we've got some time yet before we can expect them to shrink properly as a voting bloc.
They're going to stop being a meaningful part of the coalition not when they die, but when the issue becomes unfightable. And that's going to be 8 years, not 20.
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