General News Thread

[mAc Chaos]

On the other hand, Tobias, the whole Swift Boat thing in 04' was widely chalked up as Kerry's big mistake, since he decided to be "above it" and not address it beyond a general refutation while the other side ran wild with it for months and let it sink in. Similarly, Bush, unlike Trump, who snaps at any provocation, would often let many attacks stand because he felt it would be unpresidential to get down in the mud and fight it out. The end result for both Bush and Kerry was that the charges stuck and drew their approval down.

Trump relentlessly pushes back on every detail to the point of being hypersensitive, but it seems to work better than just letting it sit there.

[Mcjon01]

Let me put on my conspiracy hat and wildly speculate that this story and the elimination of the statute of limitations on sexual assault in Washington D.C. in 2019 is all part of a long con that ends with Barr having Biden arrested on the steps of the Capitol allowing Trump to run for reelection completely unopposed

[Tobias]

On the other hand, Tobias, the whole Swift Boat thing in 04' was widely chalked up as Kerry's big mistake, since he decided to be "above it" and not address it beyond a general refutation while the other side ran wild with it for months and let it sink in. Similarly, Bush, unlike Trump, who snaps at any provocation, would often let many attacks stand because he felt it would be unpresidential to get down in the mud and fight it out. The end result for both Bush and Kerry was that the charges stuck and drew their approval down.

Trump relentlessly pushes back on every detail to the point of being hypersensitive, but it seems to work better than just letting it sit there.

Its pretty debateable how well you can really refute those kind of stories. and thats true in a normal news cycle. Right now people are actually dying due to a pandemic. the only way this story gets any legs outside the fringe is if biden himself gives it oxygen.

[Mattias]

Let me put on my conspiracy hat and wildly speculate that this story and the elimination of the statute of limitations on sexual assault in Washington D.C. in 2019 is all part of a long con that ends with Barr having Biden arrested on the steps of the Capitol allowing Trump to run for reelection completely unopposed

Doesn't Trump have like ten different sexual assault allegations on him that only got buried because he was elected and you can't sue the president? Like Harvey Wienstein levels of accusers?

That's a bit like trying to set another person on fire while you're covered in gas. Sure you might get him, but you'll get it way harder almost immediately after.

[Tobias]

Who keeps the metric system down, who keeps president trump around? We dooooo, we doooooooooo


...sorry, it’s stuck in my head now

[Trubo]

On the other hand, Tobias, the whole Swift Boat thing in 04' was widely chalked up as Kerry's big mistake, since he decided to be "above it" and not address it beyond a general refutation while the other side ran wild with it for months and let it sink in. Similarly, Bush, unlike Trump, who snaps at any provocation, would often let many attacks stand because he felt it would be unpresidential to get down in the mud and fight it out. The end result for both Bush and Kerry was that the charges stuck and drew their approval down.

Trump relentlessly pushes back on every detail to the point of being hypersensitive, but it seems to work better than just letting it sit there.

You're getting the point I'm trying to post better than I have. Democrats are pushing the same playbook that's failed every time they go for a safe moderate. They're not going to get the NeverTrumper Republicans because the Republican base, regardless of what they think of Trump as a person, love Trump for letting the Republican agenda get through, so Biden's moderate appeal falls on deaf ears. Trump's approval rating is only going to tank if major Republican members of Congress die due to Coronavirus or if more corporate bailouts occur, otherwise it'll continue to rise despite his poor efforts to handle the situation. Hell, as a last ditch effort, I can see Trump promising Reparations to shore up his black support if that's what's needed to stay in office, though I doubt he'd actually follow through on it.

Tobias' response about how those I mentioned are only related to Fox doesn't do him any favors either, considering that Biden will only realistically beat Trump if he attracts a good portion of the Republican base that watches Fox, which, as I've said above, isn't likely to happen. Biden doesn't have the Obama coalition backing him up: the youth and hispanic prefer Bernie, and the moderate Republicans have no reason to go to Biden because Trump is already accomplishing all that they want. We can argue whether or not youth turnout is due to disinterest or suppression, but it's not likely to improve much in a general election considering how heavily Republicans rely on suppression anyway, especially in the Southern states that Biden has blown Bernie out of the water that he's not likely to beat Trump in.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, and I'll gleefully eat crow if I'm wrong, but I think Tobias is being way too optimistic about Biden's success in a general against Trump. He's basically Hillary 2.0, with his only saving grace being that he doesn't have the political smear baggage that Hillary got for decades from the Republicans.

[Tobias]

But on the other hand the idea that Bernie could win by turning out some kind of vast silent majority ran up against the rocks of reality and died a miserable death when nobody voted turned up to vote for him.

Plus the “Hillary 2.0” narrative never really held a lot of water because Biden routinely and repeatedly stomped Bernie in places were Bernie had beaten Hillary. So we can fairly confidently state that Biden is better then Hillary in important metrics.

[Kamera]

[Tobias]

[Kamera]

absolutely boomerish

[Tobias]

which is fitting because boomers you know



vote

[Kamera]

lol ok

[Trubo]

But on the other hand the idea that Bernie could win by turning out some kind of vast silent majority ran up against the rocks of reality and died a miserable death when nobody voted turned up to vote for him.

Hard to definitively say that's the case when the areas that polled strongest for Bernie in every state just happened to have the fewest available places to vote, in addition to fishy things such as a significant amount of votes in Texas just straight up not getting counted because whoopsie they misplaced them but can't be arsed to look at them after they were found.

Plus the “Hillary 2.0” narrative never really held a lot of water because Biden routinely and repeatedly stomped Bernie in places were Bernie had beaten Hillary. So we can fairly confidently state that Biden is better then Hillary in important metrics.

Biden is called Hillary 2.0 because of his policies, not his voting coalition. Everything people hated about Hillary, Biden did worse. His stated views suffer when he routinely goes on TV saying stuff like he'll veto M4A because of "how are we going to pay for it", with reporters never pressing him on how his Obamacare expansion is more costly than Bernie's plan, or when he yells at people saying that he doesn't work for them, the people of the country, or when he publicly admits nothing will change under his administration.

[Tobias]

ah yes. the evil Illuminati and their nefarious nation wide ability to rig the vote in such a way that they did what polls said they would do, have they no shame?! #drain the swamp MIRITE?

I mean on policy bernie supporters have worthwhile points but the apparent willingness to embrace the most hairbrained conspiracies rather then admit a loss is disheartening.

Put bluntly the only difference between a bro trying to somehow proclaim a national conspiracy and a redneck calling obama's stock market a hoax is a MAGA hat.

[Trubo]

See, you keep joking about this about the Illuminati and all, but fail to remember that the DNC literally did this last election cycle. They even went to court about it, which got us the ruling of "well they're a private organization, they can do whatever they want in their private organization, rules they claim to follow be damned".

[Mcjon01]

I mean, first things first the guy on the right is clearly in his late thirties to early forties, nobody is rocking combat boots with a goatee unless they went through adolescence in the 90s
Second, I don't really like the "youth don't vote" narrative when it's presented like it is in this cartoon since it's an unnecessarily reductive way of looking at a complex issue and I feel like its main purpose is just to make the people in charge feel justified wholesale dismissing what young people want because they "brought it on themselves" by being lazy or smoking pot or doing the instagrams or whatever canard gets thrown around that basically boils down to "young people are dumb and need to grow up, we know better"
If you actually look at the number breakdowns, the youth turnout was about the same (up in some states, down in others) as it was in 2016, which was already elevated compared to 2012. But the problem is all the older demographics turned out even more, so, gg Bernie, no re, should have brought a bigger tent.

[Tobias]

True but in my defense I was responding to kamerad, who began by posting an inane cartoon with one of my own.

more seriously, the fact that the youth turnout was about equal to 2016 is kind of my point. the one and only argument bernie ever had for how he was going to deal with socialist being a dirty word in america or how easy it would be to scare voters away from him was he had control of this massive sleeping giant of youth votors. However these voters didnt turn out for him in the 2016 primary. They didnt turn out for hillary in the general when bernie campaigned on her behalf in the general. Then bernie did worse, much worse, in the '20 primary, heavily suggesting what successes he did have in '16 were less about his revolution and more about clinton fatigue.

So...yeah, youth are about as engaged as they were in '16. about 13% or so, give or take a college town or two.

Thats not enough. and Bernie doesnt have any other answers. And that, not the illuminati or the no homors or whatever todays boogeyman is, is why bernie sanders is not going to be president. Does that mean Biden will be? we will see in november. But one repeatedly won and won repeatedly lost and I would rather put my faith in the horse that has proven it can win

[Mcjon01]

Well, it is, quite factually, actually, the No Homers Club, but you didn't hear it from me...

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Anyway the real problem is that there just aren't enough youth voters (they're only what, 17? 18? percent of registered voters) to propel Bernie to his landslide victory, but there ARE enough to fuck Democrats in the general if they don't show up there, so

I dunno, seems like something somebody should be looking at? Maybe?

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Like as in actually making them feel wanted and not just yelling "suck it up and vote blue no matter who" at them

[Zurvan]

us elections just keep getting worse and worse huh

[Tobias]

I was spelling it that way to beat their auto word finding protocols, now you have doomed us all