General News Thread

[LegalLoliLover]

anon your imperial propaganda machine reps...

Better than your Dominion propaganda, commie.

[SpoonyViking]

Actually, I do have a question, come to think. Why is do you feel that the various countries that have attempted Communism have run into their various problems? Actually asking, seriously.

Why have the various capitalist countries run into their problems?

This isn't an attempt to engage in the Tu Quoque fallacy; it's more of a statement that trying to analyse the circumstances every single one of those countries strictly under the lens of "does Communism work as a system?" probably won't yield meaningful results.

That said, as a *very* generalistic sociopolitical reading (and *only* sociopolitical), I'd argue none of them ever engaged in a meaningful transition of power from the State directly to the people (in direct contradiction of what Marx, Engels, and especially Bakunin defended), and in fact went the other way, with power being concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people.

[Pendant]

Welp, I'll leave it to you then, XD

Actually, I do have a question, come to think. Why is do you feel that the various countries that have attempted Communism have run into their various problems? Actually asking, seriously.

Have you heard of Kerala and Marinaleda?

[Kamera]

yeah because you definitely don't need a state to defend your revolution from the reaction bulk and imperialist coup.

[Bird of Hermes]

I'm pretty sure he's just trolling you there given it's known you yourself are Chinese and so presumably wouldn't be using anti-Chinese slurs.

Dunno if it was anti-chinese racial slurs per-se but the dude has used really disgusting language that recently got him banned for two weeks. I would assume they were anti-chinese in nature given this guy's hatred and track record but Tobias scrubbed the post because it was apparently that awful.

[Twelveseal]

Have you heard of Kerala and Marinaleda?

Nope. Time to look shit up.

[RoydGolden]

Dunno if it was anti-chinese racial slurs per-se but the dude has used really disgusting language that recently got him banned for two weeks. I would assume they were anti-chinese in nature given this guy's hatred and track record but Tobias scrubbed the post because it was apparently that awful.

Pretty sure I actually saw the post you're talking about and it didn't have slurs, but it did still have pretty blatantly racist language saying Affirmative Action proves black people are less capable/intelligent than whites. So, not really much better.

[Twelveseal]

Nope. Time to look shit up.

So a couple of promising Communist communities, the first a successful State in India on the wealthier side of the country's economy. Not fully Commie, but both of it's major parties are Leftist.

The second is essentially a town in Spain whose government is Communist and has had the same mayor since 1979 (according to Wikipedia). A mostly agricultural community, it has basically attained Full Employment and needs less federal money to operate than its other agricultural neighbors.

These are interesting. Worth further looking. Thankies~

[RacingeR]

The question of why communist states have all failed is a rather complex one that'd require examining each and every case in depth (not that there have been many) and analyze what led each one to their failure point. The condensed and very short answer is the one that's already been said here: none of them have actually engaged into true communism. You can also, by the same merit, point out that there hasn't been a "True Capitalism" in the sense of a full-on free market by the letters Capitalism (also a model as utopic as True Communism), though I'd say modern experiences have come pretty close, with the Neoliberal model that the US forced into the rest of the world and started actively applying on itself around the time of Bush Jr's presidency being the closest example, while Communism hasn't had anything really come close to the expressed ideal.

As noted here, none of the examples truly engaged into collectivism, or did truly transfer power to the workers. The most notable example, the Soviet Union, acted more akin to a standard Dictatorship, the Bureaucracy basically conforming a new aristocracy/plutocracy of sorts. The social weave there or in Actually Communist China of back then didn't really differ all that much from the Capitalist powers of the time, to my understanding. If you want to know more of how the USSR's economy managed itself, look up Planned Economy and its failings to see what led to the actual collapse.

Communist China itself had plenty of issues, although I fully admit my knowledge of pre-Tiananmen China is fairly lacking. Per the Shock Doctrine book, once China was in bad straits, one of the Chicago Boys went there and sold them the idea of Neoliberalism. Tiananmen Square itself was basically their application of the Shock Doctrine, and marked the moment they pivoted to a capitalist experience. Nowadays modern China acts more akin to a Neoliberal Dictatorship, resembling more the Dictatorships the US forced in South America in function. To give you an idea, many of the ideals associated with leftism or socialism are considered foreign and product of Western propaganda there.

Personally speaking I believe that neither extreme individualism nor extreme collectivism work, it is just not in the human nature to tend to either of these extremes. Extreme individualism atm has proven itself an absolute disaster: look at the idiots acting as plague carriers for the Corona, the increasingly crazed "Libertarians" and their refusal to take even the most elementary measures of safety... humanity only really grew to where it grew thanks to the natural tendency to unite as a group and work as such, and you really can't get as "anti-natural" as this exacerbated individualism that is outright killing people (nor will you get more of a death cult than Neoliberal Capitalism, for that matter, but that's a different, if related, can of worms).

[Twelveseal]

Ooooh, thanks for the breakdown, Race. Still open to hearing other voices, too~

[Kamera]

why have a failed state bro, just engage in real communism xddd

Reminder, for Nth time. “Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.”

[Twelveseal]

So basically, in less purple prose, Communism is just saying "fuck it, no system because they all suck."

Paraphrased correctly?

[Kamera]

No, in this case it means communism is a historical process.

- - - Updated - - -

aka it's not a fetch quest, but a loading screen

[Twelveseal]

Huh. That's an interesting analogy. That implies it will occur regardless of actions on the part of its proponents.

[Kamera]

and can be interrupted, reset, and paused for centuries

[Altima of the Gates]

No, in this case it means communism is a historical process.

- - - Updated - - -

aka it's not a fetch quest, but a loading screen

But if the tenets are essentially saying to move away from an established set of parameters for which to follow the process. Delineated into actual steps and not saying "we'll do whatever and have history shape that". If you don't plan, you plan to fail imo.
I mean, you kinda have to have a checklist of sorts when society is this large.

[Kamera]

Yes? If the components and conditions for it isn't fulfilled, the bar won't load. What makes the process move forwards is indeed action and labor. The goal is simply to keep up the action until the bar reach 100%, else it either pauses forever or reset to 1%. There is simply no one definite set of action to skip the process and instantly makes it 100%, as anarchists believe.

[Bird of Hermes]

Pretty sure I actually saw the post you're talking about and it didn't have slurs, but it did still have pretty blatantly racist language saying Affirmative Action proves black people are less capable/intelligent than whites. So, not really much better.

Ah, so it was his Anti-Black racism.

Still terrible.

[Tobias]

El presidente had some short remarks today wherein among other things he talked about how big tech shouldn’t have banned him and it’s a very terrible thing.

pity there isn’t some other, more direct method by which he could disseminate his thoughts and feelings to the general public

*sniggers*

[LegalLoliLover]

Ah, so it was his Anti-Black racism.

Still terrible.

So not pitying someone because of their race is being racist to that race, huh? Yeah, I felt nothing defeating Seiros (Fire Emblem), Vyrthur (Skyrim), and Nepto (Adventurequest; even though that was apparently nonlethal), despite knowing that they are the last or near last of their race. 2/3 at least were survivors of direct genocide.