View Poll Results: Will Trump be impeached? If so, when?

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  • 1 year

    8 8.89%
  • 2 years

    11 12.22%
  • 3 years

    3 3.33%
  • 4 years

    2 2.22%
  • Unimpeached after one term

    22 24.44%
  • 5 years

    0 0%
  • 6 years

    0 0%
  • 7 years

    0 0%
  • 8 years

    0 0%
  • Unimpeached after two terms

    14 15.56%
  • El Presidente For Life cannot be impeached

    30 33.33%
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Thread: General News Thread

  1. #23501
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    @rxrx: seems that way. Not like that's particularly unusual, though. Modhi's party is Hindu nationalist. Considering Pakistan was split from India just to be a Muslim country and folks were relocated at the time, there's been an undercurrent of "go, we made a place for you," there among some Hindus and other groups that seems to think of them as nuisance foreigners who aren't really Indian, and thus aren't entitled to the rights of citizens and should "go home."
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  2. #23502
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One rxrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twelveseal View Post
    @rxrx: seems that way. Not like that's particularly unusual, though. Modhi's party is Hindu nationalist. Considering Pakistan was split from India just to be a Muslim country and folks were relocated at the time, there's been an undercurrent of "go, we made a place for you," there among some Hindus and other groups that seems to think of them as nuisance foreigners who aren't really Indian, and thus aren't entitled to the rights of citizens and should "go home."
    Modhi's government makes me uneasy. Mixing religion and politics is never a good thing. What's next, ethnic cleansing?

  3. #23503
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    Agreed. And I hope not, but that's what comes to mind when you talk about stripping people of their citizenship. They instituted requirements to show proof of citizenship in one of the nation's states earlier this year, with a lot of people discovering they lacked any of the proper documentation to prove such.
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  4. #23504
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Pendant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    snip
    Saying British Jews don't understand "British irony" is perhaps tactless, casual racism at best but it does not rise to "antisemitism". But if we're really concerned about antisemitism then why is it that Johnson calling and depiticing Jews as hook-nosed "oligarchs" a non-issue when that is textbook antisemitism? Because he supports Israel.

    As for standing on stage with some radicals, yeah it's a situation which will inevitably foment some radicalism. It's also an easy way to dismiss all criticism of Zionism because people really would rarher you just pipe down and cooperate. End the occupation and you will marginalize such viewpoints. BDS is a peaceful protest movement and it's still smeared because some of its leaders have at one point or another not chosen the precise, perfect words.

  5. #23505
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendant View Post
    Saying British Jews don't understand "British irony" is perhaps tactless, casual racism at best but it does not rise to "antisemitism".
    Anti-semitism is racism towards Jews. You contradict yourself. Flatly so. What's more, this is that very classic and recognisable case of depicting Jews as a separate community who never assimilate and thus have divided loyalties, are untrustworthy, and therefore at fault for their own discrimination.

    But if we're really concerned about antisemitism then why is it that Johnson calling and depiticing Jews as hook-nosed "oligarchs" a non-issue when that is textbook antisemitism? Because he supports Israel.

    As for standing on stage with some radicals, yeah it's a situation which will inevitably foment some radicalism. It's also an easy way to dismiss all criticism of Zionism because people really would rarher you just pipe down and cooperate. End the occupation and you will marginalize such viewpoints. BDS is a peaceful protest movement and it's still smeared because some of its leaders have at one point or another not chosen the precise, perfect words.
    Boris being racist and offensive not just to Jews but also to a full myriad of groups is an issue, one repeatedly raised during the campaign. To try to paint it as not a problem is disingenuous, and a pointless effort to apportion blame to bias against parties instead of actual fault. In any case, this is a) whataboutism that does nothing to actual mitigate Corbyn/Labour issues; b) a continued attempt to drag the topic back toward Israel/Palestine, which I have strongly exhorted you to stop believing to constitute the be-all and end-all of the question of anti-semitism. Please take the point. When you do so, you might consider how few of the problems I quoted you even attempted (poorly) to dismiss or minimise, and what this says about the situation Corbyn's Labour has come into.
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  6. #23506
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle
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    Quote Originally Posted by rxrx View Post
    Modhi's government makes me uneasy. Mixing religion and politics is never a good thing. What's next, ethnic cleansing?
    He's already done ethnic cleansing before. Google Gujurat Riots 2002. It's pretty much the only option they have if they go for this mad enterprise because where are you going to deport all these people. Even if only 1% of the muslims are denied citizenship the government does not have the money to maintain them in camps. So they have starvation and eventual death do to that to look forward to. Even Bangladesh isn't going to accept people on the border because most of them have been in India for over 50 yrs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Twelveseal View Post
    Agreed. And I hope not, but that's what comes to mind when you talk about stripping people of their citizenship. They instituted requirements to show proof of citizenship in one of the nation's states earlier this year, with a lot of people discovering they lacked any of the proper documentation to prove such.
    This is a the result of a separate issue related to that. When the final rolls came out most of the muslims could prove their citizenship, most of the hindus couldn't. This was exacerbated by the fact that most of the muslims identified as assamese and could speak the local language but the hindus couldn't muddying the waters further. This backfired pretty terribly for them so this is an attempt to fix that.

  7. #23507
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    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...mitism-problem

    "Bernie might be ethically Jewish, but..." LMAO
    This is your brain on liberalism.

    Even if Bernie is actually cool with Israel, and even if his family was the victim of holocaust, liberals (in this case also an actual fascist sympathizer) will find a way to throw the "anti-semite" label on him.

    Identity politics is fucking disgusting.

  8. #23508
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One asterism42's Avatar
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    Because all the synagogue etc mass shootings in the US over the last few years have been committed by Bernie's supporters OH WAIT

    - - - Updated - - -

    "He's anti-semitic!" - Actual anti-semites
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  9. #23509
    Running away from Falconetti AsGryffynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamerad View Post
    It seems Anglo politics care less about actual consequences of their votes than short-term outrage over some porky propaganda. Truly, the "developed" first-world are class-cucked beyond measures with their ruling class hegemony (as in Gramsci) shoved down everyone's throat. Have fun with worsening neoliberal austerity and incoming recession.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The only thing that matters in political analysis is your grasp of dialectical materialism. Nationality is irrelevant :P
    Or maybe I have seen the actual shortfall of reneging on public promises in three different continents. I'm not talking the internet. I've been there.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tory-landslide

    I mean, I didn't go from "Catalan separatist to Vox supporter overnight", just like I didn't go from "anything right wing in Latam is awful" to "Santos is the greatest statesman the region has had in Millennia". You look at the mood before you jump. In Corbyn's case, he alienated the Leave constituencies, whereas the Remain ones were already decided.

    I will just say this: go back to the center and your party dies. It's really that simple. This isn't the end of history years: you either pick a "ride or die" side or just roll over and die altogether.

  10. #23510
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamerad View Post
    Identity politics is fucking disgusting.
    Identity politics have nothing to do with this.
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  11. #23511
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    I think the focus on media is much exaggerated, and bluntly down to a lot of Corbynites being unhappy that the cult hasn't achieved much penetration there.
    I see. But if there's been a rightward tilt in recent (?) years, wouldn't that have helped the Conservatives attract new voters over that period? To put it another way: wasn't this election basically fallout from the same rise in ultranationalism which led to Brexit in the first place? Or do you still think May's blunders (and possibly other factors I haven't seen?) were enough that Labour could have taken the election if not for Corbyn being at the helm?
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  12. #23512
    後継者 Successor Kamerad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsGryffynn View Post
    Or maybe I have seen the actual shortfall of reneging on public promises in three different continents. I'm not talking the internet. I've been there.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tory-landslide

    I mean, I didn't go from "Catalan separatist to Vox supporter overnight", just like I didn't go from "anything right wing in Latam is awful" to "Santos is the greatest statesman the region has had in Millennia". You look at the mood before you jump. In Corbyn's case, he alienated the Leave constituencies, whereas the Remain ones were already decided.

    I will just say this: go back to the center and your party dies. It's really that simple. This isn't the end of history years: you either pick a "ride or die" side or just roll over and die altogether.
    The leftcoms are once again proven right about the Socdem to fascist pipeline. :/

  13. #23513
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    I see. But if there's been a rightward tilt in recent (?) years, wouldn't that have helped the Conservatives attract new voters over that period? To put it another way: wasn't this election basically fallout from the same rise in ultranationalism which led to Brexit in the first place? Or do you still think May's blunders (and possibly other factors I haven't seen?) were enough that Labour could have taken the election if not for Corbyn being at the helm?
    I should specify that by rightward tilt I don't mean a drift to the right, I mean that the newspapers have consistently been that way. I was purely admitting that our newspapers don't balance out. Of the top twelve newspapers in circulation, from most to least, I would define the Metro as low-politics neutral, the Sun and the Daily Mail as right-wing, the Standard as centre-right, the Mirror as left, the Times as centre-right, the Telegraph as right, the Star as low-politics, the Express as hard-right, i/the Independent as centre to centre-left, the Financial Times as centre-right, and the Guardian as centre-left.

    In 2019, that comes out as a circulation of ~1.2m left-leaning to ~4.47m right-leaning. There's much nuance involved there, particularly in the centre-right papers which will often lean centre or even centre-left in particular areas - many of them campaigned against Brexit for a start - but it's broadly illustrative.

    The only significant changes you might consider in there in the past ~twenty years are that the Sun - albeit always populist - has drifted rightward having previously hitched itself to Blair's government, the Times has returned slightly rightward since also supporting Blair's policies, and that the Mirror had a brief wobble against Blair before returning to the Labour fold. (You may note that this all centres around Blair and New Labour's impressive presence as a dominant political force).


    In general respect of the media and Brexit, I think it's very important to note that Europe was a relatively minor political consideration before Cameron pledged to hold a referendum. Newspaper focus (as the bastion of partisan opinion politics) on it was accordingly intermittent, if sometimes strong, with perhaps the singular exception of the frothing lunatics at the Express. I don't mean to say that it was a non-entity, and I'm sure it was a tactical manoeuvre that helped Cameron into his shock win, but it was a very small fish in a large sea. Poll data has it that one percent of people in December 2015 thought Europe was the most important political issue in the UK. People who thought it was an important issue at all numbered between about seven and thirteen percent in the decade from 2006 to 2016. UKIP and the BNP even at their respective high points returned a grand total of one MP who had already been sitting - they got protest votes at European elections when that was the only issue on the table, and that was effectively it. Cameron used the referendum as a vote winner, but also as ammunition for an anticipated second coalition agreement and as a sop to the right wing of his parliamentary party, who were one of the small set for whom Europe was a continual concern.

    This is an important fact: the referendum spurred the media (and their briefers in the Leave and Remain camps) to start putting out serious and sustained lines on Europe, not the other way around.

    With the referendum suddenly calling for opinions on Europe, which many people just hadn't really had, then we saw Leave's (illegal) machine swing into work. Yes, promising that we'd avoid being drowned in a flood of brown people to some, but also promising that every public service under the sun would have triple the budget, that we'd Go Our Own Way instead of being a "lackey" to Brussels, and if anyone didn't like Cameron, it'd be a kick in the teeth for him. (The last was an important factor, I think. While the hyper-partisan debate since has solidified a lot of people into their referendum positions, there was a lot of protest voting at the time given that Remain had seemed the probable winner).

    And so, kinda from nothing, we ended up with a vote in favour of a policy that had been endorsed by no major party campaigning just a year before. While there's a temptation to try to sift the tides of history, to proclaim the inevitability of a distant earthquake resulting in an eventual tsunami, the actual fact of the matter is that this blew up enormously quickly. We were not a slowly radicalised country starting to express our radicalisation (by 52 to 48), we were a bunch of poorly-informed amateur voters trying to address an extremely complicated issue under pressure, and we happened to marginally swing one way for a myriad of reasons, many of which were - knowingly or unknowingly - entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand.


    When it comes to 2017, I'm not perfectly sure I can deliver a good verdict on that counterfactual. It's worth considering that I do not think May would have called the election were Corbyn not a dumpster fire. She went into that with massive leads in the polls, looking to insulate herself from being held hostage by her tiny majority. The campaign turned that upside down. (It's illustrative to look at a couple of Guardian articles - no Tory partisans - on the day May announced she'd call for a vote on the election. 2019 was a disaster, but 2017 looked like it would be even more hideous).

    If Corbyn dropped dead of a heart attack the day Parliament was dissolved, and was replaced with Labour Superpolitican behind whom the whole party immediately unites and who conjures up a brilliant manifesto from thin air? (I'm being generic about Labour Superpolitician, because their crop now and then has been somewhat slim). Then, yeah, maybe she does lose that. Again, it's hard to speculate with real authority, because there was such a reverse in a small time and because all the data necessarily presumes Corbyn in charge.
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  14. #23514
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One rxrx's Avatar
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    I think people are just taking the easy way out by blaming their troubles on minorities or/and outsider influence.

  15. #23515
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    [...]
    I see. Thanks for explaining, Seika!
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  16. #23516
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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...lifornia-beach

    So, uh... Zouken isn't real, right?
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  17. #23517
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    Of course not, it's obviously that asshole Makiri Zolgen.

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  18. #23518
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One rxrx's Avatar
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    Seems like India's Citizenship Amendment Bill is causing a huge disaster there where the Modhi needs to enforce curfew and even shut down the internet to try containing them.

  19. #23519
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    They did that preemptively over Kashmir as well. It seems to be standard practice when they know they're about to do something unpopular with the locals.
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  20. #23520
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One rxrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twelveseal View Post
    They did that preemptively over Kashmir as well. It seems to be standard practice when they know they're about to do something unpopular with the locals.
    India has the advantage though since the international community doesn't care, so they can do what they want without risks.

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