https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...r-probe-244314
mainstream media won't tell you about this
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...r-probe-244314
mainstream media won't tell you about this
Originally Posted by asterism42
Last edited by 2Bad; October 30th, 2017 at 03:18 PM.
The manafort thing is pure tax evasion, who cares, the Pap thing is way more potentially damaging, and it is bad - although it just looks like morons who got caught in Russian intelligence honeypots rather than any grand conspiracy.
Shut up Strife, honest to god, it's the worst gimmick.
That's a perfectly sane post, which gives you no right to tell her to shut up. Get a grip, Rodyle.
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No, it's not, it's her usual "the conservatives/the rich aren't so bad" bit, which here includes literal lies.
Manafort's LAUNDRY LIST of charges, while mostly financial yes, specifically includes a big, fat, juicy "Conspiracy against the United States" and Pap's plea blatantly demonstrates that there's no honeypot here: the Russians both made absolutely clear what the deal on the table was AND actually told them how to leave less of a trail (advice they ignored, because they're idiots).
Last edited by 2Bad; October 31st, 2017 at 07:57 AM.
"Conspiracy against the United States" is a simple charge of conspiracy, saving that it involves the federal government or its agency. Namely, here, he has conspired to impede the Revenue Service by concealing taxable income, and the Department of Justice by failing to disclose the extent to which he was acting on behalf of the former Ukrainian government. The language is emotive, but the charge itself is far from "juicy" as you would have it. It's nothing more than a restatement of the rest of the charges, but alleging that he involved other people. It has nothing to do with treason or anything else of the sort.
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You're right, it's SEDITION, not treason.
Have you considered reading your own posts, and thinking about the ways in which yelling nonsensical melodrama in capslock doesn't make you come off as reasonable?
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Have you considered that thinly veiled centrist faux-politeness doesn't actually change the fact you're blatantly wrong about this?
E: the man was and is part of a movement to collude with foreign actors and bring down the United States government, it's as close to blatant sedition as one can get without screaming for armed revolt from a podium (which, hey, Republicans do plenty of that too so)
Last edited by 2Bad; October 31st, 2017 at 08:23 AM.
Shouting and insulting people isn't how to conduct a debate.
The statute on seditious conspiracy. I note that all clauses have a "by force" qualification, which Manafort clearly fails. It's not sedition. You're being absurd. Calm down.If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
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Yes I said this.
That he falls short of the strict legal definition neither changes the spirit of his crimes nor does it make him any less screwed.
E: nor does it change the meaning of the word outside that strict legal context
Last edited by 2Bad; October 31st, 2017 at 08:37 AM.
Let's talk about massive tax cuts for business and the middle class.
Paul Ryan will happily talk about one of those things, especially if it helps distract from all the aiding and abetting.
It is worth noting that theatrical descriptions of the charges aside, Manafort is proper fucked without either a pardon or a plea deal. As in never see the light of day again without cutting an arrangement with someone
So far as most analysts have weighed in, it looks like he's already been passed over for a plea deal due to a combination of his crimes being too big for that and just generally not being needed. Certainly his counsel (and by the way he apparently had a hard time getting one because he owed millions to other firms) isn't acting like there's an out.
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