General News Thread

[Ratman]

Here's a handy dandy flowchart for those interested...

Big pic

But how does Tony Hawk's Pro Skater tie into the greater timeline tree?

[Five_X]

This is true, but it also does sound quite a bit like you're defending their decision to throw rocks at gay people until they die.

Criticising a country for executing people for their sexuality is good and right, yeah. Insinuating that this is happening because this country doesn't have enough Freedom and Democracy while ignoring that those things over here in the West haven't exactly been doing so well is gauche at best, racist at worst. It's deeply ignorant to assume that every country operates on a 1-10 scale of Western-Or-Not, and that issues like this are simple and have no cultural baggage.

[Mattias]

But how does Tony Hawk's Pro Skater tie into the greater timeline tree?

It branches into the THPS timeline when Theresa May manages to Darkslide over Big Ben's hands to secure 100% for her deal, preventing Britain's economic collapse.

[RoydGolden]

Criticising a country for executing people for their sexuality is good and right, yeah. Insinuating that this is happening because this country doesn't have enough Freedom and Democracy while ignoring that those things over here in the West haven't exactly been doing so well is gauche at best, racist at worst. It's deeply ignorant to assume that every country operates on a 1-10 scale of Western-Or-Not, and that issues like this are simple and have no cultural baggage.

You're the one who's making this an issue of "East versus West" though. All Twelve said was that Brunei has anti-blasphemy laws and is ruled by an unelected, unaccountable

Sultan

Monarch

. I don't see you disputing that either of those are facts or saying grossly authoritarian, theocratic states are actually okay, so it seems you agree with him on that count. The only reason you'd have to take issue with his post is if you read in an invisible "But of course only Eastern countries can ever be totalitarian and Western countries are all bastions of freedom and democracy" proviso, which isn't supported by anything Twelve actually wrote. Given the obvious counterexamples of European, white majority countries like Russia and Hungary that are strongly authoritarian and homophobic, it's outright bizarre to me that you'd equate criticisms of theocratic tyranny as a veiled attack on some nebulous set of "Eastern" countries.

On your second point, yeah, I'm pretty sure countries with a functioning Democracy are less likely to institute atrocities like mass purges of gays or other social undesirables. Obviously Democracy isn't some infallible shield against evil intent (the Weimar Republic did vote in Hitler after all), but in general I'd imagine it's a lot harder to institute something like a genocide if the people you're planning to round up and kill are free to vote against it. Of course this won't apply if the marginalized people in question already had limited or nonexistent voting rights, but clearly there the issue is a deficiency in democracy, not an overabundance of it.

[Five_X]

The problem with the use of "tyranny" is that it implies these laws aren't popular. They very much are, and there's where the problem lies, and why democracy isn't a panacea. Even Putin's opposition in Russia supports the anti-LGBT legislation there.

[Dullahan]

if democracy produces unacceptable results, the state must dissolve the people and elect another

[34]

so that's why they are importing refugees

[Mcjon01]

if democracy produces unacceptable results, the state must dissolve the people and elect another

Which state though

[aldeayeah]

if democracy produces unacceptable results, the state must dissolve the people and elect another

i'll prepare the acid vats

[SpoonyViking]

On your second point, yeah, I'm pretty sure countries with a functioning Democracy are less likely to institute atrocities like mass purges of gays or other social undesirables.

You are assuming that the purging of undesirables occurs arbitrarily imposed by a ruling faction, when as a matter of fact it tends to take place with support (either tacit or stated) of the so-called desirables. Hence all the scapegoating rhetoric repeated ad nauseam by so many in order to create an Other.

- - - Updated - - -

Damn it, I need to finish reading the thread before posting, I'm basically just repeating what Five said.

[Twelveseal]

Basically. Anyway, my opinion isn't an East v. West thing, nor do I think democracy is a cure-all (though I do think that a healthy democracy enshrines basic human rights, making purges more difficult to achieve). Populism is a lot more influential in democracies, and that tends to be where that sort of violence comes from. Democracy doesn't cure social problems. My point here is that the LGBTQ minority is closer to collateral damage than a direct target of this move. Anti-blasphemy laws are tailored to divide populations and crush dissent and criticism internally. That's probably the main point here, imo.

[RoydGolden]

You are assuming that the purging of undesirables occurs arbitrarily imposed by a ruling faction, when as a matter of fact it tends to take place with support (either tacit or stated) of the so-called desirables. Hence all the scapegoating rhetoric repeated ad nauseam by so many in order to create an Other.

No, no, I get that. But presumably every, say, gay person would vote against a policy mandating gays be exterminated. Some studies show that roughly 6% of Americans identify as gay or sexually nonconforming in some way (actually, surveys tend to get wildly variable results between 1% and 6%, but I'm going with that number for convenience). So right away, that's a 6% of people who are going to vote against your policy no matter what.

Now, straight people obviously aren't a unanimous hivemind (citation needed), so not all of them are going to vote for a given anti-gay law. Some of them are going to defend gays, defend other rights that supervene on gayness (like civil liberties more generally) or just not care one way or the other and vote on other issues that interest them more (let's pretend this is a direct Democracy where people vote on issues directly; elected representatives make the picture more complicated but don't, I think, change the fundamental argument).

If you assume every gay person is going to vote against an anti-gay law, and only some straight people will vote for it, unless straights are voting almost completely unanimously or the portion of gays in the population is truly miniscule, it'd be very hard for such a law to pass. Of course in real life the issue is more complicated than that, because (amongst other things) some self-hating gays might vote for anti-gay politicians anyways and there are often gerrymandering laws that make it harder for marginalized groups to vote. But that's the gist of it.

To put it more simply, in an tyranny, you only need one person (the ruler) to decide to kill you before you're dead. In a democracy, you need at least 51% of the populace to want you dead first. While obviously no political philosophy is perfect, that seems like an undisputed improvement to me.

[Mattias]

It's not just about the leaders/governments though. Most of these place are hyper religious and if the people in robes and pointy hats tell them the gays are evil then they'll go along with it. Even in places where separating church in state is a driving ideal, in practice it never really happens since those places tend towards being democracy's (since any sane dictator would have made themselves the head of the religion centuries ago), and that populous still hold whatever ideals the church preaches, so they elect similar minded people to office.

[Twelveseal]

Mmm, technically democracy, functionally theocracy. That said, it's what the founding fathers here in the US called the tyranny of the majority. If you want to protect people from that, changing laws isn't going to work, or even happen, short of some good baked-in institutional protections. You're going to have to change the minds of the people through their religion. Good luck with that.

[Deathhappens]

Farewell, my Heisei~

Japan has announced that the name of its new imperial era, set to begin on 1 May, will be "Reiwa" - signifying order and harmony.

I get to have been born in a past era
how... decadent.

[Historia]

so i just read something about allison mack pleading guilty to sex trafficking and other charges i forget in a case about the NXIVM organization--basically an organization setup by some horny dude to coerce women into sleeping with him? i didn't read much.

huh, shame.

is smallville worth watching though?

[SpoonyViking]

No. No, it isn't.

[34]

neat

[asterism42]

news just in: black holes are black and they look like holes

[Deathhappens]

news just in: black holes are black and they look like holes

You jest, but literally all we had to go on what a black hole looks like was imagination.