General News Thread

[Trubo]

fascism = "nothing against the state, everything for the state, nothing outside of the state"

socialism = "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

"community" is just another way to say the state. if for some reason it isnt, it needs to be taken away from the people that built the means of production through force and more likely than not, that force is exerted by the state or by a "community" that will soon crown itself the state

In practice, a fascist state is one that funnels all wealth to the ultra-rich while encouraging the non-ultra rich to fight amongst themselves on trivial issues so that nobody has time to think how fucked up it is that, say, Amazon chose to install vending machines that distribute pain medication and have EMS on standby to rush overworked poors out of the warehouse instead of implementing proper healthcare.

Meanwhile, socialism recognizes that, even if the dreaded "welfare queen" could exist, they're such a minority of the population that it's not worth worrying about them when it comes to implementing policies that benefit the populace as a whole since it saves wealth via the whole adage of buying in bulk lowers the cost of production.

crowdfunding

Gofundme and things like it being the best access to healthcare that the non-rich have is a sign of a failed state. The government has power to force corporations to stop exploiting the populace, whether it chooses to or not is another issue entirely.

2- refusing to rely on foreign products and build your own and if they try to move in on your country, everyone better be hostile to it through a nationalistic spirit and just sheer force of arms.

my country is fucked not because foreign companies moved in, but because of a lack of a nationalistic spirit because the EU paid our homegrown large scale capitalists to destroy their own industries in exchange for a quick buck and for some reason they did it.

Good luck telling the US to fuck off if it decides to muscle its way in without being so stupidly wealthy in one natural resource that your country can bribe the US to do its bidding.

there is little difference from multinationals controlling everything and a multinational big government controlling everything. in fact, most cant do it without the support of the state

The difference is that the latter can actually be changed by the people in that state, even if it's difficult, while the former are beholden only to profit and will do anything it takes to squeeze it from you.

[fire_mountain_30]

i wish man but the closest are red red green coalitions, most EU socialist parties are socdem

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Greeks did it for a hot minute and got betrayed, press f

*sigh*

will you at least stop acting like that if i tell you via PM?

[Altima of the Gates]

The problem is that you decry the evils of capitalism, and yet want to support parties that is ruthlessly capitalistic and would use the BS argument of the free market any day to screw you over while also telling you its your fault/you're a bum for not being rich already. Its false populism.
Its sad how people continue to get tricked into thinking that something that goes against crony capitalism is automatically leading to communist/socialist policies from fascist despots.

[fire_mountain_30]

Meanwhile, socialism recognizes that, even if the dreaded "welfare queen" could exist, they're such a minority of the population that it's not worth worrying about them when it comes to implementing policies that benefit the populace as a whole since it saves wealth via the whole adage of buying in bulk lowers the cost of production.

socialism hasnt met the migrant crisis of the 21st century then

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Gofundme and things like it being the best access to healthcare that the non-rich have is a sign of a failed state.

i meant crowdfunding as a way to build the service providing institutions and the infrastructure without having to rely on government and foreign influence, not as a way to purchase the services on an individual basis

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The problem is that you decry the evils of capitalism, and yet want to support parties that is ruthlessly capitalistic and would use the BS argument of the free market any day to screw you over while also telling you its your fault/you're a bum for not being rich already. Its false populism.
Its sad how people continue to get tricked into thinking that something that goes against crony capitalism is automatically leading to communist/socialist policies from fascist despots.

what the hell are you talking about? i never mentioned that. dont throw your lefty talking point influenced by a crony statist american system at me.

i dont want to vote for any parties. the closest ideology to having to having 0 government will get my vote.

what is "crony capitalism" if not "socialism for the wealthy"? hello "privatized gains and socialized losses"...

socialism is about concentrating wealth in the hands of the elites in government and the few that run the majority of the industry. it is literally the same thing as socialism, only under a different name. every instance in human history has shown this

[Trubo]

socialism hasnt met the migrant crisis of the 21st century then

A crisis started because of imperialistic tendencies by the US and other major powers in the world to grab all the resources for themselves, and by themselves I mean only for those rich enough to buy their way into controlling the acquisition and distribution. But sure, blame socialism for not being able to handle super extreme cases not a result of its own means.

i meant crowdfunding as a way to build the service providing institutions and the infrastructure without having to rely on government and foreign influence, not as a way to purchase the services on an individual basis

That's what a tax is supposed to accomplish.

[I3uster]

A pm has no value to me you might as well not tell me.

[fire_mountain_30]

In practice, a fascist state is one that funnels all wealth to the ultra-rich while encouraging the non-ultra rich to fight amongst themselves on trivial issues so that nobody has time to think how fucked up it is that

LOL. you are wrong there buddy. my parents and grandparents lived through literal fascism. they didnt try to divide people, quite the opposite. everyone better worship the same values, not congregate or criticise the smallest thing ever or the secret police and the snitch apparatus will come for you in the middle of the night and throw you in prison or concentration camp where you will be tortured until the end of your days.

(hello New York Covid legislation)

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A crisis started because of imperialistic tendencies by the US and other major powers in the world to grab all the resources for themselves, and by themselves I mean only for those rich enough to buy their way into controlling the acquisition and distribution. But sure, blame socialism for not being able to handle super extreme cases not a result of its own means.



That's what a tax is supposed to accomplish.

1- taxes arent voluntary especially when i dont give a fuck about the thing i am forced to pay for. they are the government stealing from you saying "you cant manage your money on your own".


2- i dont give a damn about what the US did in a bubble. that is their problem for being imperialists. my hatred for socialism is independent of that. (honestly the armies of each of our countries should be armed and ready to defend our borders as they always have been in history)

you said the "socialist queen" wouldnt be a problem and i gave you a current example that shows that it cant work, so you dont get to say that "oh, but this situation doesnt count"


no socialism, no wars if possible and no intervention of any sort. that is what MAGA wants and i agree with it so i stand with them on this

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Meanwhile, socialism recognizes that, even if the dreaded "welfare queen" could exist, they're such a minority of the population that it's not worth worrying about them when it comes to implementing policies that benefit the populace as a whole since it saves wealth via the whole adage of buying in bulk lowers the cost of production.

and it often leads to a focus on quantity rather than quality and everything breaks after a while, like with the USSR and their subsequent love for american jeans and other shit (damn you should see what that feels like in my new house after the pandemic started and they screwed with the supply chains)

or you get the same quality but if you have an error rate of like 1% and it is something life saving and you buy thousands as opposed to hundreds of that, instead of tens of dead, you will have hundreds (or shit just breaking in general i guess)

[Trubo]

LOL. you are wrong there buddy. my parents and grandparents lived through literal fascism. they didnt try to divide people, quite the opposite. everyone better worship the same values, not congregate or criticise the smallest thing ever or the secret police and the snitch apparatus will come for you in the middle of the night and throw you in prison or concentration camp where you will be tortured until the end of your days.

Lot of words to say Us (people of the state) vs Them (those that are critical of the state and foreigners) that still amounts to what I described, the ultra-rich in a fascist state will do anything in their power (promise improvements before stealthy abandoning said improvements like ending fossil fuel subsidies) and say anything (wearing kenta scarves or whatever instead of addressing the problem of why police are so happy to murder blacks) to prevent any sort of challenge from the have-nots.

(hello New York Covid legislation)

Cuomo is a blue dog aka Republican masquerading as a Democrat, why are you suggesting his policies are friendly towards the people or the left?

1- taxes arent voluntary especially when i dont give a fuck about the thing i am forced to pay for. they are the government stealing from you saying "you cant manage your money on your own".

Enjoy your anarcho-capitalist Mad Max world then, cause self-interest/greed will not lead to the societal benefits you currently enjoy without someone forcibly getting the wealth necessary for said benefits.

2- i dont give a damn about what the US did in a bubble. that is their problem for being imperialists. my hatred for socialism is independent of that. (honestly the armies of each of our countries should be armed and ready to defend our borders as they always have been in history)

"I hate socialism because another country's fascist-tendencies made it difficult to implement socialism in the first place" is an interesting take.

you said the "socialist queen" wouldnt be a problem and i gave you a current example that shows that it cant work, so you dont get to say that "oh, but this situation doesnt count"

What situation? The current US healthcare system is so shit because corporations have lobbied to gut the government's ability to do basic shit like negotiating prices on a large scale and failing to act on what little anti-trust legislation exists to prevent price gouging, monopolies, and other things that the so-called free market-favoring politicians should care about. The only reason we can't afford better healthcare is that we're pissing money away for nothing. Getting the actual supplies isn't all that difficult, the current system just promotes artificial scarcity.

Any existence of a welfare queen is less than pennies compared to the billions sucked up by corporations in this case.

no socialism, no wars if possible and no intervention of any sort. that is what MAGA wants and i agree with it so i stand with them on this

No socialism except man those stimulus checks sure would be something. No wars but continue to "support the troops" while doing nothing to curb the MIC from starting more wars for profit while also telling veterans to fuck themselves. No intervention until it's police directing their suppressive efforts to quash their "nationalistic" movements instead of those uppity brown and black people or medical bills bankrupt them.

and it often leads to a focus on quantity rather than quality and everything breaks after a while, like with the USSR and their subsequent love for american jeans and other shit (damn you should see what that feels like in my new house after the pandemic started and they screwed with the supply chains)

or you get the same quality but if you have an error rate of like 1% and it is something life saving and you buy thousands as opposed to hundreds of that, instead of tens of dead, you will have hundreds (or shit just breaking in general i guess)

Can't really go anywhere else in this discussion if you want to conflating something that's an economic approach with a political approach.

[fire_mountain_30]

why police are so happy to murder blacks

are we seriously bringing this uber debunked talking point into this?

here is the short version:

1- black people commit 50% of the crime

2- most of them have a "fuck the cops" attitude and are brought up on gang culture either through outright living in it or because of rap.

3- the "fatherless homes" problem is most prevalent in the american black community, which leads to a lot of destructive behaviours in their teens and adult years ( i have personally seen this same thing even with the 2 parents in the house but a dysfunctional education that produced the same situation, in a white family)

4- they get longer sentences because the courts punish those that dont cooperate with law enforcement.


have you ever tried hearing any black libertarians or black republicans on these issues?

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Cuomo is a blue dog aka Republican masquerading as a Democrat, why are you suggesting his policies are friendly towards the people or the left?

Hahahahaha

yes, because the dude going after the Jewish community right now in a provable malicious campaign has the same ideological framework as the BibleThumpers or the Libertarians or the Constitutionalists


Hahahahahaha

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What situation? The current US healthcare system is so shit because corporations have lobbied to gut the government's ability to do basic shit like negotiating prices on a large scale and failing to act on what little anti-trust legislation exists to prevent price gouging, monopolies, and other things that the so-called free market-favoring politicians should care about. The only reason we can't afford better healthcare is that we're pissing money away for nothing. Getting the actual supplies isn't all that difficult, the current system just promotes artificial scarcity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBxR...hannel=PragerU

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Can't really go anywhere else in this discussion if you want to conflating something that's an economic approach with a political approach.

oh wise one, please show me how the ideological and political framework of those drafting our budgets are wholy separate from their economic priorities

[Twelveseal]

Wtf dude.

[Trubo]

are we seriously bringing this uber debunked talking point into this?

here is the short version:

1- black people commit 50% of the crime

Most of the crime they're arrested for is non-violent drug possession and other petty stuff.

2- most of them have a "fuck the cops" attitude and are brought up on gang culture either through outright living in it or because of rap.

3- the "fatherless homes" problem is most prevalent in the american black community, which leads to a lot of destructive behaviours in their teens and adult years ( i have personally seen this same thing even with the 2 parents in the house but a dysfunctional education that produced the same situation, in a white family)

Good old self-fulfilling prophecy there. Keep shitting on blacks because they're unworthy and go shocked pikachu face when they're upset about being treated as scum.

4- they get longer sentences because the courts punish those that dont cooperate with law enforcement.

Yeah, because instances like George Floyd are rare am I right?

have you ever tried hearing any black libertarians or black republicans on these issues?

Candace Owens is no different from Obama on this. They got theirs, fuck other blacks is their mantra.

Hahahahaha

yes, because the dude going after the Jewish community right now in a provable malicious campaign has the same ideological framework as the BibleThumpers or the Libertarians or the Constitutionalists

Weird that you keep putting words in my mouth I never said. Are you now insinuating I think that the left is in favor of fucking over the jewish community?

But just ignore that Cuomo has more in common with Republicans on issues of economic importance, like cutting welfare programs and labor protections all to court the rich to stay in the state. Oh, and giving corporations free reign to murder the elderly without having to suffer any legal consequences.

Hahahahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBxR...hannel=PragerU

Lol free market propaganda video. Just ignore how a free market can't even work in this instance when big pharma and corporate hospitals already hold all the power. Just ignore how all the corporate giveaways of ACA are due to Romney and co when they first came up with it and Obama decided to abandon his healthcare reform plans in favor of bipartisanship when Obama had the votes to get his original plan before 2010.

oh wise one, please show me how the ideological and political framework of those drafting our budgets are wholy separate from their economic priorities

Take Rand Paul for instance. Keep screeching about the debt and deficit as to why we can't help working families, meanwhile he votes in favor of all the biggest corporate and mega-rich tax cuts as if that's not complete and utter hypocrisy for the economic principles he claims to stand for.

[asterism42]

am not sure if troll

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not you, Trubo

[Spinach]

I am incredibly racist

Well yes we figured that out, is there anything we don't know that you still have to say?

[Zurvan]

Awh man I love this part of the movie, quick lemme refill my popcorn

[fire_mountain_30]

Well yes we figured that out, is there anything we don't know that you still have to say?

the fact that you blatantly edited my comments and i am arguing according to the principles showcased by black right wingers as well as statistics?

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"Yeah, because instances like George Floyd are rare am I right?"


actually yes.


did you read the transcripts of the whole situation?

did you continuously check for the various autopsy updates?

he threw himself unto the ground and the police allowed him because he was feeling ill.

he died from the drugs in his system.

the cops were not convicted last i saw because the court saw the full situation and declared them as innocent as they possibly could

[Spinach]

LOL

[fire_mountain_30]

am not sure if troll

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not you, Trubo

alright, i will bite

what makes me a troll?

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LOL

amazing response

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ok, show of hands

how many of you follow the work and the videos of either black libertarians or black conservatives?

go on, show of hands.

how many of you have seen their takes on the above mentioned issues?

[RacingeR]

And I thought this thread couldn't get any more psychotic holy shit

[Spinach]

I'm deranged

Come on man you keep repeating yourself.

[fire_mountain_30]

Lol free market propaganda video. Just ignore how a free market can't even work in this instance when big pharma and corporate hospitals already hold all the power. Just ignore how all the corporate giveaways of ACA are due to Romney and co when they first came up with it and Obama decided to abandon his healthcare reform plans in favor of bipartisanship when Obama had the votes to get his original plan before 2010.

"big pharma and corporate hospitals already hold all the power"

now see how much they get in government subsidies

now see how much their bureocracy is affected by government intervention

now see how the influence of the state in the student loans has increased their tuition fees, which then later translates to their salaries, which are paid for by the consumer


"corporate giveaways of ACA are due to Romney and co"

RINOs. not the MAGA crowd. you want to say that Romney is a corporate crony shithead that needs to be removed and i will 100% agree