Ancient Literature Discussion (History, Myth, Philosophy &c.)

[Kirby]

I mean, in a forum where the most popular work is legendary figures dukin it out it's weird how we didn't have one of these by now

Discuss myth, legend, history, and general old things in this thread pls

[SeiKeo]

Nerds.

[Christemo]

This is my new favorite thread, but we should probably have an opening topic, mr. OP.

[Historia]

Hmmmmmmm... how about which mythology is the most full of majestic unicorns?

[Kirby]

Okay.

previous episode, on bl history discussion

I recommend the Illiad for your summer break.

Please read books that aren't boring.

I've been reading this lately. Maybe it's just this particular writer-translator, but reading it feels like what eating polystyrene packaging must be like- it's thicker than it has any right to be, it's hollow, and it's got to be no good for everybody involved.

i read the illiad when i was like 10 and loved it stop being a girl

I will write 10,000 words at you on the brilliance of the Iliad, Leo.

[Haseo Nanaya]

Hmmmmmmm... how about which mythology is the most full of majestic unicorns?

Hindu. e) but Seiba might take it.

[Christemo]

Unicorns weren't actually really a thing like we know them until the middle ages, but some greeks were convinced they were real and that they lived in a distant land called India.

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Hindu.

Incorrect b0ss.

[Christemo]

[SEIKA MEGAPOSTING INTENSIFIES]

[Seika]

Right. The Iliad. The greatest work of literature ever (as shown authoritatively by Googling "Iliad greatest ever"). How are you going to read it?

You aren't. You're going to hear it sung to you in several sessions over the course of a few day by a bard who's memorised it in its entirety, accompanied by feasting, music, and friends. In the original Greek. This is as it's supposed to be experienced; this is the medium for which it was written, and in which it is best displayed.

No? You can't manage that? Well, we can't have everything. You say, in fact, that you want to read it by yourself, silently, in English? Yuck. But let's see what we can do.

In general, there are three translations which Classicists will recommend to a layperson:
Robert Fagles
Robert FitzGerald
Martin Hammond

Of these, I find Hammond's the best. It is, admittedly, prose, and this undercuts a lot of the poetic sense of the Iliad. This is very unfortunate. It is however, to my mind, the one that best captures Homer's emotion. I don't mean that in the literalness of the translation, but in the way it grasps the glory and the tragedy of the Iliad, in its grand quest for honour, its quiet reflections, and its cruel bloodshed.

I will leave you with some of my own translation, from one of my absolute favourite bits of my absolute favourite poem. This begins at about the two hundredth line of the Iliad, and is just after Akhilleus has been implored by Athene to merely despise Agamemnon and not actually kill him.


Peleus’ son immediately spoke vicious words
to Atreus’ son, and he did not turn back his anger:

“Wine made you fat; you have the eyes of a dog and the heart of a deer.
You have never gone into battle with the war-host,
never taken up your spear alongside the best warriors of the Akhaians;
you’ve never bothered: you think it would be your doom.
Instead, it’s much better for you to steal the gifts
from whoever speaks out against you in the Akhaians’ wide camp.
You are a king who devours his people, ruling over worthless subjects,
or else you would have already done your last cruel deed.
But I tell you this, and I swear a mighty oath on it -
by this sceptre which cannot produce leaves or branches
any more, since it left its stump in the mountains;
and will not bloom again, for the bronze stripped away
its leaves and its bark; and now the sons of the Akhaians
carry it in their hands to show that they are judges, who protect
the customs of Zeus - and this will be a mighty oath against you:
the pain of Akhilleus shall be inflicted on the sons of the Akhaians,
each and every one. And when this happens, nothing will be able protect you,
however much it hurts, when many at the hands of Hektor the killer
lie dead. And you will tear at your heart within you
that you angered the best of the Akhaians and did not appease him.”


So spoke the son of Peleus, and he threw the sceptre studded with gold nails
to the earth, and he sat himself down.

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[SEIKA MEGAPOSTING INTENSIFIES]

I'm not actually going to write 10,000 words on why I love the Iliad. (Yet). But you were correct in anticipating a​ post at least.

[Christemo]

I'm not actually going to write 10,000 words on why I love the Iliad. (Yet). But you were correct in anticipating a​ post at least.

I've come to know what to expect when you hover in the "browsing this thread" bar for 20 minutes without saying anything.

[Kelnish]

That was pretty dry. Not tech manual dry, but still pretty dry.

Or at least not fun to read.

[Historia]

I didn't read it.

[Christemo]

I liked it, though its not the kind of thing I can comprehensively read at 5 in the morning (which it happens to be right now).

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Its an easier read than Islamic law books at least.

Speaking of, those are a pain. I've been reading through The Righteous Society by Jørgen Bæk Simonsen for the last 2 months at a snail's pace because it's not just theology but also jury and law at the same time and fuuuuuuuuuck its hard to keep my attention with that. It's interesting, but it's also fucking hard reading not in the sense that his writing is complex (since its mostly a thesis-esque analysis), but that the topic is just so weighted.

[Five_X]

Hmmmmmmm... how about which mythology is the most full of majestic unicorns?

De Bello Gallico.

[Kat]

Anyone read here Secret History by Procopius? Certainly not most reliable account of Justinian's reign, but I read it for the salt and spicy moments.

[Five_X]

Anyone read here Secret History by Procopius? Certainly not most reliable account of Justinian's reign, but I read it for the salt and spicy moments.

It's better than TMZ.

[Christemo]

So an obvious place for this thread to start would be: what are (some) of your favorite mythological/historical etc stories/books and why should I or others read them?

I guess I'll start with The Divine Comedy, which is to date probably my favorite religious book. It's heavy, confusing poetry and you basically need a reference list just to keep up with all the names that are dropped in it, but it's a journey through hell quite unlike anything else I've read, and Dante does a bang-up job telling people his intricate and complex vision of hell in enough detail that you will probably be able to recite some of the Cantos from memory when you're done...

...Bashing of various people he didnt like (even though they were probably bad people) and how it had Muhammad in the circle of Fraud aside, it's pretty much one of my favorite books of all.

[SeiKeo]

Divine Comedy is not mythological or historical. Just trying to keep us on topic.

[Christemo]

Divine Comedy is not mythological or historical.

Notice "old fiction" is in the title of the thread, and I address it specifically as a religious book.

[Kirby]

Is it old fiction? .-.

e: welp