Hm, I see, I see.
Hm, I see, I see.
That's not really a given. Most enemies WILL ignore an unconscious enemy in favour of a conscious threat. Moreover, depending on the enemy and the circumstances prisoners can be much more valuable than corpses. In the cases you described though, yeah. A wild animal is likely to indulge itself when in frenzy if its handlers don't restrain it, and using the downed enemy a a hostage to lure the others out of hiding makes perfect sense.Originally Posted by Saiga
In general though, going for the unconscious guy as a DM is kind of a "dick move". You do it if it wouldn't make sense not to,such as in the situations you described, but having an NPC go "oh so I can't immediately hit the enemy, guess I'll just take my time to stab this guy who is already down and no threat to me whatsoever" is dangerously close to metagaming. Remember, NPC's don't have the concept of "wasted turns". If they're not in range to attack, they will move in range to attack, if they still can't reach then they'll double move. They don't care about action economy, after all. Save that kind of combat savvy for named enemies and the like.
I don't agree. The players fine tuning their turns represents in-world combat experience and a lot of enemies would have that or the instinct to do so. That and in a world where magical healing is prevalent, it would be common knowledge that a downed enemy can still be a threat. The players certainly waste no time in finishing off downed enemies almost every time when the shoe is on the other foot, so it shouldn't seem out of place that enemies do it too.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
None of that is news to me, but it really doesn't apply to this situation.
It's not metagaming to make effective use of a NPCs actions, and I'm also not adverse to having them waste actions/take obviously poor actions if it's appropriate. But I don't see it being appropriate in either situation:
*In the first scenario, all players were accounted for. Two were unconscious, and one was deliberately flying out of range of the melee enemies and refusing to surrender. It doesn't make much sense for a wolf to be fighting an enemy and just stop attacking it because it's unconcious.
*In the second scenario, the archers would have had to give up an advantageous position to pursue the party who was out of sight behind cover. These were Yuan-ti, smart enough to know that's a bad idea. Attacking an unconscious ally is a good way to attempt to flush them out of hiding.
Frankly, if anything here is metagaming, it's the players deliberately leaving characters downed or in vulnerable positions because they think they'll be fine and don't want to waste their actions stabilizing an ally, which is at times completely at odds with their character's RP. I don't go straight after downed players, but having the possibility still be there prevents players from making weird mechanical decisions that break character.
Id argue that how enemies treat downed allies depends on the context. Intelligent or cunnimg foes (10+) might remember or take notice of downed PCs. You might have them use dying allies as makeshift hostages, or they might decide to prioritize more immediate threats and attack those that are still standing. A ravenous animal might try to drag a fallen ally to its nest as food, or it may be simple enpugh to only pay attention to active and dangerous targets.
Re: the players doing it:
The players always have a bit more leeway when it comes to optimizing their combat turns; after all, ideally, they're always in situations that are a genuine challenge to them. Even then, assuming you keep track of unconscious NPCs and don't just declare them dead when they hit 0 (as is, I believe, the default in 5e) stabbing someone while they're down would be an at least minor Evil act and bound to raise a few eyebrows.
RE: NPC's doing it:
Magical healing exists, to be sure, but it's always supposed to be something relatively rare; doubly so for the recent "lower magic" editions, where even a major city isn't guaranteed to have a high level Cleric offering their services. Health potions are more common, but they also aren't as strong and obviously require administering to the victim if they're unconscious. For a team of assassins with foreknowledge of who they're going up against, finishing off their kills would make sense (as would poisoning their weapons, setting traps, etc). A group of random bandits on the road, not so much.
Last edited by Deathhappens; September 3rd, 2019 at 01:02 AM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
you'd be wrong in assuming soassuming you keep track of unconscious NPCs and don't just declare them dead when they hit 0 (as is, I believe, the default in 5e)
I said that it was justified in the examples you posted, just not in general.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
screw your merge, muhahaha
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
While it's true that 5e got sold as "low magic" and that stuff like getting magic items is a lot harder, in settings like Forgotten Realms magic is still fairly common, so people wouldn't be caught unawares by it. Phandalin, the backwater town in the 5e Starter Set, has members of powerful magical organizations crawling all over it.
But yes I agree that it depends on the situation. Also NPCs don't have to die automatically on 0; you have the option to use saves if it's a more important character.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Eh, considering Phandalin is part of the "tutorial adventure module" for 5e, so to speak, I'd give it a pass as not really indicative of the overall state of the realm. Granted, Forgotten Realms has always been a high magic setting, but it's not supposed to be the default.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
How is it not supposed to be the default? Cormyr had a high-profile court magician in Vangerdahast, the greatest magician of the realms has very publicly "retired" to Shadowdale, the Seven Sisters are very public figures (and some of them are also rulers in their own right), Thay is a literal magocracy, Manshoon (and Zhentarim magicians in general) is probably a boogeyman in the northern realms, and any learned person would have at least heard of Netheril. I'm not even getting into countries where magic is specifically more common than in others, such as Cormanthor or Silverymoon.
The Realms have always been a high-magic setting, there's no way around it.
- - - Updated - - -
Sorry, sorry, my brain is still scrambled. You're saying the Realms aren't supposed to be representative of D&D in general. My bad!
(Though I'd disagree with that statement simply on the basis of it being the most popular setting.)
Ιf I recall correctly, Greyhawk was supposed to be the "official" D&D setting, at least originally. Though I think they stopped trying to push that around the time 3.5 dropped, if not earlier.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
FR is definitely the default setting for 5e considering the majority of official content takes place in it.
It was only the official - as in, default - setting in 3.0 and 3.5. The core books didn't have default settings before then, and I'd argue Mystara was more the face of OD&D than Greyhawk, at least after a certain point.
I miss Mystara.
Forgotten Realms is the default 5e setting.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Wait, really?
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Would I ever lie to you
Hmmm... first it was what, Blackmoor? Then it was the Hollow World of Mystara, which was literally future!Blackmoor. Then it was Greyhawk for 3x, Points of Light/Nentir Vale for 4e, and now Greenwood's Forgotten Realms.
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