Tabletop Games Thread

[mAc Chaos]

Ah yes. I ended up purchasing that at Barnes and Noble a few months ago. It's all in one short thick paperback, like an Umineko volume. It sort of reminded me of 3.5.

[Random]

What's Sword World like? D&D but anime?

That depends on the angle you look at it from, but I think Sword World's design ethos is very different. D&D was very palpably built by a bunch of war game nerds in Gary Gygax's basement in ~6 hour sprints, and it contrasts quite heavily when you consider that. At the very least, my experience with it so far has been very different to D&D.

Sword World was designed for a Japanese audience - that is, people whose lives are utterly rammed with obligations and responsibilities, whose free time is probably spent in the form of 60-90 minute visits to the local internet cafe, if they're even urban enough to have one - and it shows. Sessions and quests are clearly intended to be interchangeable. It sort of feels like an old-school MMO in that regard.

You have 2d6 for everything. You will never need more than that. I guess it must be difficult to get comparatively weirder dice like d20s or d8s in Japan or something, because it would much prefer to create tables within tables to consult for your result, rather than just use another die. Interactions are not that complex either, and there are even three kinds of increasingly complex combat systems outlined in the three core rulebooks to accommodate different "resolutions", so to speak.

In terms of fluff, it somehow feels more down-to-earth than D&D. Creatures will have levels of intelligence and general dispositions outlined for them, but cosmically-approved moral alignments aren't really a thing, and the game systems are almost critical of the very notion. You just happen to be on the opposite side of the power struggle to the more intelligent monsters by default. It's set in a post-apocalyptic, post-Demon Lord era in which the golden age of magic has already fallen, and it uses this backdrop of collapsed empire and lost technology to flesh out a bunch of things, like the mana-powered robots or the gunners who need enough specific and technical knowledge to fill a class.

Specific knowledge filling a class doesn't seem like much (isn't that what classes are), but the game makes multiclassing practically mandatory. Each class is narrow in scope, much more so than D&D. You can't be an adventurer with only a combat skillset - someone in your party is going to need skills like cartography and meteorology. You'll want a combat class and a non-combat class, generally speaking, although many builds require two combat classes. For example, no magic gunners unless you have the engineering know-how to operate the lost technology that went into them, but also having the marksmanship ability to actually make use of them. You will use your third class slot eventually, especially in smaller parties.

The classes don't make any real formal division between combat and non-combat, and most are combat capable, but a few have absolutely no combat abilities whatsoever. The example build that the game gives for the "party leader" only really pays lip service to the idea of being able to frontline in battle. Because almost all of the non-combat abilities are spread out into specific minor classes that specialise in non-combat, I can hypothetically see a game where you never pick up a weapon at all in the hands of a skilled GM, but they would have to be pretty skilled, because the non-combat classes are weirdly overpowered. This manages to be a good thing, because it discourages powergaming quite effectively. Anyone can use any skill, in theory, but you need a compatible class to apply a bonus from your stats.

Recovery is thin on the ground and resource pools are scarce. You will rest often, especially at low levels. Full recovery often requires a full night's sleep and a proper meal - which is one of a few things you need to budget for, of course, just like D&D - but can also take much longer than that if you don't have a dedicated healer. You will, at best, recover 20% of your max HP from a full rest. If you were seriously injured yesterday, you're going to feel it in the morning. It's a subtle difference, but it's a nice touch that really adds to the tension, and makes you seriously consider whether or not you can really press on.

On top of that, there's very little in the way of MP recovery - for reference, the standard starting sum is 1200G for your entire inventory, and the consumable mako stones that will recover you a set amount of MP and then disintegrate get more expensive the more MP you put into them on a roughly exponential basis. Right now, I am a C-list caster with C-list MP at Adventurer Level 2. A mako stone worth 5 MP will cost me 1000G. I have 28 MP, and my average spell costs 3 MP. It's extremely stingy, and you need to pace yourselves. Thank god I'm not the only person capable of healing. That said, since you'll almost never have material components to spells - and when you do, they're going to be mako stones - you can get away with a surprising amount with just a simple wand.

One weakness to this system I've noticed is that the scope of "viable builds" is pretty narrow. You could say it about D&D too to a certain extent, but there are very specifically combinations of races and classes that will form serviceable builds. This is offset a little bit by a (shockingly fun to use) character creation book that helps you generate a viable build based on character backstory and such, but I went off the rails and made something of a master-of-none very easily, unlike the rest of the party who mostly followed the book.

There's also some weird stuff that's pretty cool, like dedicated rules for posting your characters online as Streetpass-esque helpers for other parties who might need it, once-per-session bonuses to an ally's check because you roleplayed exceptionally well, the answer to "can I make a Notice check" always being "no", distinctions in the functionality of skills depending on what class you're invoking for your bonus, and so on.

Also, there's a God of Railroads, which means you can be a Train Priest. Unless you're a bunny rabbit, because bunny rabbits have sinned against heaven and must atone for the crimes of their forefathers.

tl;dr it's more like a jrpg than an anime tbh which i guess makes sense since it's a japanese role-playing game

[Mattias]

What's Sword World like? D&D but anime?

I thought DnD but anime was Big Eyes Small Mouth?

[mAc Chaos]

No, BESM isn't like D&D at all.

[Mattias]

It's not? Back in the day a friend of mine was talking it up and that was the impression I got. Does it lean heavier to White Wolf sytle? Or Fates?

[Twelveseal]

No, but BESM did have a D20 line that tried to merge things somewhat. Also, thanks for the link, Death.

BESM is more like Mutants & Masterminds or GURPS; very freeform, with point-buy skills. It only really has three stats in the core game, iirc. Body, Mind, Spirit, and else is just based on those and your skill/power selection.

[mAc Chaos]

Like Twelve said, it's very rules lite and closer to freeform.

[Mattias]

Ah, Mutants and Masterminds. Makes sense, the same person also convinced me to pick those books up.

[Deathhappens]

That depends on the angle you look at it from, but I think Sword World's design ethos is very different. D&D was very palpably built by a bunch of war game nerds in Gary Gygax's basement in ~6 hour sprints, and it contrasts quite heavily when you consider that. At the very least, my experience with it so far has been very different to D&D.

Sword World was designed for a Japanese audience - that is, people whose lives are utterly rammed with obligations and responsibilities, whose free time is probably spent in the form of 60-90 minute visits to the local internet cafe, if they're even urban enough to have one - and it shows. Sessions and quests are clearly intended to be interchangeable. It sort of feels like an old-school MMO in that regard.

You have 2d6 for everything. You will never need more than that. I guess it must be difficult to get comparatively weirder dice like d20s or d8s in Japan or something, because it would much prefer to create tables within tables to consult for your result, rather than just use another die. Interactions are not that complex either, and there are even three kinds of increasingly complex combat systems outlined in the three core rulebooks to accommodate different "resolutions", so to speak.

In terms of fluff, it somehow feels more down-to-earth than D&D. Creatures will have levels of intelligence and general dispositions outlined for them, but cosmically-approved moral alignments aren't really a thing, and the game systems are almost critical of the very notion. You just happen to be on the opposite side of the power struggle to the more intelligent monsters by default. It's set in a post-apocalyptic, post-Demon Lord era in which the golden age of magic has already fallen, and it uses this backdrop of collapsed empire and lost technology to flesh out a bunch of things, like the mana-powered robots or the gunners who need enough specific and technical knowledge to fill a class.

Specific knowledge filling a class doesn't seem like much (isn't that what classes are), but the game makes multiclassing practically mandatory. Each class is narrow in scope, much more so than D&D. You can't be an adventurer with only a combat skillset - someone in your party is going to need skills like cartography and meteorology. You'll want a combat class and a non-combat class, generally speaking, although many builds require two combat classes. For example, no magic gunners unless you have the engineering know-how to operate the lost technology that went into them, but also having the marksmanship ability to actually make use of them. You will use your third class slot eventually, especially in smaller parties.

The classes don't make any real formal division between combat and non-combat, and most are combat capable, but a few have absolutely no combat abilities whatsoever. The example build that the game gives for the "party leader" only really pays lip service to the idea of being able to frontline in battle. Because almost all of the non-combat abilities are spread out into specific minor classes that specialise in non-combat, I can hypothetically see a game where you never pick up a weapon at all in the hands of a skilled GM, but they would have to be pretty skilled, because the non-combat classes are weirdly overpowered. This manages to be a good thing, because it discourages powergaming quite effectively. Anyone can use any skill, in theory, but you need a compatible class to apply a bonus from your stats.

Recovery is thin on the ground and resource pools are scarce. You will rest often, especially at low levels. Full recovery often requires a full night's sleep and a proper meal - which is one of a few things you need to budget for, of course, just like D&D - but can also take much longer than that if you don't have a dedicated healer. You will, at best, recover 20% of your max HP from a full rest. If you were seriously injured yesterday, you're going to feel it in the morning. It's a subtle difference, but it's a nice touch that really adds to the tension, and makes you seriously consider whether or not you can really press on.

On top of that, there's very little in the way of MP recovery - for reference, the standard starting sum is 1200G for your entire inventory, and the consumable mako stones that will recover you a set amount of MP and then disintegrate get more expensive the more MP you put into them on a roughly exponential basis. Right now, I am a C-list caster with C-list MP at Adventurer Level 2. A mako stone worth 5 MP will cost me 1000G. I have 28 MP, and my average spell costs 3 MP. It's extremely stingy, and you need to pace yourselves. Thank god I'm not the only person capable of healing. That said, since you'll almost never have material components to spells - and when you do, they're going to be mako stones - you can get away with a surprising amount with just a simple wand.

One weakness to this system I've noticed is that the scope of "viable builds" is pretty narrow. You could say it about D&D too to a certain extent, but there are very specifically combinations of races and classes that will form serviceable builds. This is offset a little bit by a (shockingly fun to use) character creation book that helps you generate a viable build based on character backstory and such, but I went off the rails and made something of a master-of-none very easily, unlike the rest of the party who mostly followed the book.

There's also some weird stuff that's pretty cool, like dedicated rules for posting your characters online as Streetpass-esque helpers for other parties who might need it, once-per-session bonuses to an ally's check because you roleplayed exceptionally well, the answer to "can I make a Notice check" always being "no", distinctions in the functionality of skills depending on what class you're invoking for your bonus, and so on.

Also, there's a God of Railroads, which means you can be a Train Priest. Unless you're a bunny rabbit, because bunny rabbits have sinned against heaven and must atone for the crimes of their forefathers.

tl;dr it's more like a jrpg than an anime tbh which i guess makes sense since it's a japanese role-playing game

That... actually sounds fun.

I already downloaded the pdf, now I'm gonna have to study it.

- - - Updated - - -

No, but BESM did have a D20 line that tried to merge things somewhat. Also, thanks for the link, Death.

BESM is more like Mutants & Masterminds or GURPS; very freeform, with point-buy skills. It only really has three stats in the core game, iirc. Body, Mind, Spirit, and else is just based on those and your skill/power selection.

Welcome!

[Deathhappens]

I'm finally playing a L5R campaign!!!!!

[SpoonyViking]

Cool! Which edition, and which era? What are you playing as?

[Castellan]

After a long break to finish my thesis I am back on my bullshit (running Scion Second Edition) and God I missed this game.

[Deathhappens]

Cool! Which edition, and which era? What are you playing as?

4th edition but in an alternative timeline from, I believe, Imperial Histories where Togashi became the first Emperor instead of Hantei. Which is just as well because some of the metaplot I read leading to the Second Day Of Thunder made me want to bang my head against the nearest wall.

I haven't figured out what I want to play yet other than "a bushi because fuck trying to courtier on my first game and shugenja feel kinda complicated". Was looking for Hiruma or Shiba schools but GM said they'd rather we all come from different clans so now I'm somewhere between Mantis, Scorpion or Minor Clan.

[SpoonyViking]

Huh. The metaplot up to the Second Day of Thunder is actually widely considered the heyday of L5R's storyline. XD Though most games I've played or run were set before the Scorpion Clan Coup.

[Deathhappens]

I mean, come on, a Scorpion Clan Champion organising a coup against the Emperor? And failing, at that? Crane and Phoenix taking sides in a war? The Crab Clan Champion entering an alliance with the Shadowlands???

[mAc Chaos]

Planescape, soon.

[SpoonyViking]

I mean, come on, a Scorpion Clan Champion organising a coup against the Emperor? And failing, at that? Crane and Phoenix taking sides in a war? The Crab Clan Champion entering an alliance with the Shadowlands???

You should read the The Way of series. They're 1st Edition sourcebooks, and they're often written from an in-setting point of view, but they provide excellent insights into the clans and characters.
Also, *of course* the Crane and the Phoenix take sides in wars, particularly the former? Even more when it's something on the scale of the Clan War.

[Deathhappens]

I don't see how any book could possibly make a Crab Clan Champion besieging Otosan Uchi with a horde of Oni at his side make any kind of sense, but our GM is already using Way of the Crab (and some other 1st ed material, like Fortunes and Ancestry tables) so I was planning on checking them out anyway.

As for the latter, especially Phoenix but also the Crane are supposedly pacifist Clans. They're often involved in Clan Wars, no way around that, but they don't just jump in when a civil war is looming over the horizon.

[Random]

Sword World 2.5:

fairy tamer suuuuucks

it does everything that other magic classes do but like 25% less efficient so it's impossible to carve a niche for yourself

staves and shit that would be used to give bonuses to magic checks have no equivalent here

even if you have tamed a fairy (i still have yet to tame one after two months of sessions) it costs at least 500 gold for the resources to summon it and you can't cast anything else while it's summoned which means you will simply be watching it fight on your behalf

which sucks because fairies have a ridiculously limited moveset anyway compared to you since they only get one element and maybe a unique skill or two while you get four

and their elemental spells are from the same list as yours anyway!!

[Deathhappens]

Sounds like you should be bonking people on the side instead. Summoning classes are almost always strong purely because you overturn the action economy.