Tabletop Games Thread

[LegalLoliLover]

Huh, does this page need to be updated, then https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Li...ystem)#Three_2 or am I blind that I cannot find it here? Also, this video from the official World of Darkness channel mentions touchstones:


But isn't that a Requiem thing, or has that been retroactively added for Masquerade? In terms of Fortitude https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Fortitude does Eternal Vigilance cover resistance to sun damage or just maintaining strength during the day? In terms of Vlad, how much of Bram Stoker's book that he ghost-wrote is true? In the book, Lucy rose from the grave. In other words, there was a rather long period of "death" during which she was moved to said grave. However, generally speaking, it shouldn't take that long for someone to rise up after the Embrace, right?

The main difference between Cainites and Kuei-Jin is that the former feeds on blood, while the latter feeds on qi, right? Just as Kuei-Jin can travel westward (as per the Bloodlines PC game), some Cainites not only travel to Asia but also may end up Embracing someone there, such as this Sabbat member: https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Lin_Baloh The wording for Earth Meld is rather strange: https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Protean_(VTM) "Becoming one with the soil, the vampire sinks into the earth. Unless in torpor, the vampire rises again the following night." Does that mean that the Kindred in question is literally soil or just hiding in it? In other words, until they rise up, can they be accidentally or purposely dug up?

[Zork Knight]

V5 has Touchstones, but they have to be living humans. Basically hostages for the storyteller to use against players

Kuei-jin have a whole slew of differences from Kindred; their main similarities are feeding on blood (for the Kuei-jin because it has qi) and avoiding the sun (makes the Kuei-jin body rot). They're spiritual beings and can't Embrace or make Blood Bonds.

[LegalLoliLover]

Again, in that official World of Darkness video, it lists Kindred, kine, and even rituals as possible touchstones. I get that Kuei-Jin are essentially a different type of undead, but it is more than possible for a Cainite, a western-style vampire, to head eastward, Embrace someone, and, in the case of Lin Baloh, for that childe to have an "embassy" of sorts, consensual or not, in Asia, given that he is the Sabbat Archbishop of Nanjing. Caitiff are essentially the Gacha game of Kindred, in terms of Disciplines and Curses, right? Like mix-and-match, but with actual canon reasoning.

[Herod]

Protean meld you with the soil.

[LegalLoliLover]

In other words, a Kindred who knows Protean can essentially troll most inexperienced Hunters with Earth Meld causing said Hunter to spend all day trying to dig up a body that's simultaneously not there but also everywhere? According to this, from what I can see, the Followers of Set consider Ra to be just another name for God/Yahweh: https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Aeon_(VTM) So what, do they think that the Exodus was just a glorified cricket fight set up by an unworthy "heavenly" emperor?

[Herod]

It's not "everywhere", it's in a specific portion of soil with the same dimensions of the vampire body. And if you disturb that portion too much (by digging inside of it, for example) the vampire body is ejected out of it.

[LegalLoliLover]

I previously linked the Sabbat Archbishop of Nanjing. Have there been any other western Kindred who have organizations or chapters of organizations in what is nominally Kuei-Jin territory?

[aldeayeah]

Uh, I've just been checking out V5. It's a pretty significant leap in the metaplot from V20, almost a different setting.

Human hunters/governments/Vatican have wiped out a large part of clans Tremere and Giovanni. The former have splintered into a few minor houses and the latter have rejoined all those other ex-Cappadocian bloodlines into a new independent clan, Hecata (this is from an expansion).

The Sabbat has also been decimated, losing most of its leadership and territory. As of now, Sabbat characters are NPC-only. Out of the original VtM 13, the corebook lacks sections for clans Giovanni, Ravnos, Tzimisce, Lasombra, Assamites and Setites, includes only Ventrue, Toreador, Brujah, Malkavian, Nosferatu, Gangrel, Tremere, Caitiff and Thinbloods.

Now the major factions are Camarilla and Anarchs. Most Brujah have joined the Anarchs.

Assamites/Setites have joined the Camarilla/Anarchs respectively, as have some Sabbat survivors.

Camarilla and Anarchs aren't in an open war but they have cut diplomatic ties.

Camarilla now also rejects high generation vampires, has forbidden the usage of modern communication technologies, and have become far more reclusive/insular.

There's a mysterious big supernatural war in the Middle East involving many of the surviving Sabbat bigshots, Methuselahs, quite possibly a bunch of Antediluvians, and most of the Elders who're being "called by the blood", much like just Clan Ravnos back in the Week of Nightmares.

And with most Elders gone, Ancillae and Neonates (ie, PCs) are pretty much left to run the show.

It's a brave new world.

Can't comment on the game systems since I haven't checked that part, but Disciplines seem to have been simplified/overhauled too.

* * *

LVL, in V5 there's a Golconda trait that lets you walk under the sun at 5 dots. This is relevant to a question you asked:

***** Greet the Sun: You know Golconda’s secrets. You may be incapable of walking the path forever, but for as long as you do, you can brave full daylight without suffering harm. However, the night after you walk in sunlight, you wake in a Hunger frenzy. You can do this once per story.

this is some pretty cavalier shit from Paradox though and I wouldn't backport it to earlier editions, in fact I'd say there's a clear continuity divide between early VtM-V20 on one side and V5 on the other.

[aldeayeah]

I previously linked the Sabbat Archbishop of Nanjing. Have there been any other western Kindred who have organizations or chapters of organizations in what is nominally Kuei-Jin territory?

Yes, but it's rare (at least in China). Kuei-Jin and other Eastern supernaturals tend to frown upon Cainites, particularly Camarilla clans which are dealt with extreme prejudice (in fact the metaplot trend is the opposite, with Kuei-Jin encroaching on Cainite territory in California and elsewhere.)

The hostility to the Camarilla is explained as a reaction to the Elder-sponsored Western abuses in the times of Imperialism. Independent clans may be slightly better received. Sabbat is probably a no-no. Assamites have a truce but they won't intrude (in fact, they'll gladly help keep other clans away).

There are some small native groups like the odd Ravnos/Salubri bloodline, probably in Tibet, but they have been there for ages, so they don't really qualify as "Western"

Anyway, checking on some of my old PDFs: China is terra non grata for Western Kindred. Some Giovanni guy has been single handedly running the black market of Beijing for centuries (A World of Darkness 2ed). There used to be a small Camarilla community in Hong Kong, including a Tremere chantry, that was probably wiped out when the local Ventrue who was the guy who actually knew how to deal with the locals moved on to greener pastures coinciding with the handing back of HK to China. Generally speaking, cities that are major trade centers/hubs may have a small Western Cainite presence. Then again, it's usually people who've been there for a long time and know what they're doing.

Japan seems to be slightly more welcoming after WW2. There seems to be a small Tremere chantry in Tokyo (World of Darkness: Tokyo). Tokyo in particular seems to be a relatively safe locale, then again it's not exactly Cainite territory by any means.

[LegalLoliLover]

So is that Nanjing Archbishop still in power? Going back to Japan, you're essentially saying that if some Cainites started dicking around there, there would be no punishment nor support from the Camarilla?

[aldeayeah]

So is that Nanjing Archbishop still in power?

If you're talking Lin Baloh, he was never "in power" because the Sabbat holds no real territory in China. He's just the de facto boss over the scattered Sabbat groups in China.

As for his continued survival, given the sorry state of the Sabbat in 5th edition, who knows.

Going back to Japan, you're essentially saying that if some Cainites started dicking around there, there would be no punishment nor support from the Camarilla?

Pretty much. Although if they raise up a big enough stink someone could be dispatched to terminate them. Or they could be judged in absentia and face punishment when they returned to Camarilla territory. Still, if they became a nuisance they would most likely be exterminated by locals long before the Camarilla cared to act.

Actually, the situation would be similar to Tsukihime/Fate with the Holy Church/MA, who have limited presence in Japan, but will sometimes send agents to deal with priority targets.

For example, if you diablerize someone important and get found out, fleeing to Japan may delay the inevitable retribution, but they're still coming for you at some point. Maybe they won't sent other vampires to catch you, but they can give local hunters a tip, sic other supernatural allies on you, or directly hire local muscle (supernatural or mundane).

[LegalLoliLover]

Well, yes, doing something in a major city vs. doing something in a small village that's the backwater of a backwater are 2 very different actions. Now that you brought up Kindred hiring Hunters, wasn't that one of the causes of the Second Inquisition?

[aldeayeah]

Now that you brought up Kindred hiring Hunters, wasn't that one of the causes of the Second Inquisition?

Yes, but that doesn't stop it from being a useful tool. Depends on how much of a pragmatist the vampire is. More traditional types would frown upon that sort of thing and send vampires/ghouls instead.

It's certainly not very Masquerade-friendly, but then again, there's a big difference depending on where you do it.

[LegalLoliLover]

Again, to me, Inquisitors are only good as punching bags for unleashing the Beast upon. You know, ones where you don't have to hold back when feeding. Also, does one need to physically see a person to use Mask of 1000 Faces? In other words, would using a magazine photo count? From what I know, the second generation was diablerized by the third generation, so does that mean that there are at least 3 Antediluvians who have the same strength as a Watcher?

[aldeayeah]

does one need to physically see a person to use Mask of 1000 Faces? In other words, would using a magazine photo count?

It's explained in the V20 book that you need to physically study the person for a while, otherwise the difficulty is higher.
Personally I'd rule that a photo doesn't provide enough info to fool anyone who's familiar with the copied subject.
Extensive footage might be enough.

Anyway V5 makes it a 5-dot power and nerfs it further, LOL

note that if you want to become a random imaginary person, and not to look specifically like someone, there are no such limitations.

From what I know, the second generation was diablerized by the third generation, so does that mean that there are at least 3 Antediluvians who have the same strength as a Watcher?

Only the Antediluvians themselves know what actually happened. Diablerie or not, they're powerful enough for that question to be largely meaningless.

What's the purpose of all these questions? You seem to have something very specific in mind.

[LegalLoliLover]

The lore is interesting, and being unable to play Bloodlines 2, I need to get my fix somewhere else from one of the most detailed vampire stories ever... Now, if you want a more specific answer, then here is a more specific question. Basically, I was looking at this thread: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...he-vtm-setting and I had just recently finished watching the Shiki anime, and I was wondering what bloodline Sunako would be from, given these traits: https://shiki.fandom.com/wiki/Shiki

Given that she has a mixed bag of curses (Baali clan curse of being weak to sacred objects, Tzimisce flaw of privacy obsession, etc.) and disciplines (common ones, like blood buff and blood heal, obviously; apparently lesser Dominate skills that need the target to be weakened first; also, levitation, which can be a skill from several disciplines, such as thaumaturgy: movement of the mind or the Bloodlines 2 disciplines of mentalism, which I believe is based on thaumaturgy: movement of the mind and chiropteran), and given that she never really knew her sire, I was going to go with Caitiff.

[aldeayeah]

TBH any low Humanity vampire could work, the Cappadocians who look corpselike may be the best fit. Characters often learn out-of-clan disciplines so the powers are no real reason to go for one clan or another. Nonstandard weaknesses could be Flaws. The only thing hard to translate seems to be the different feeding/bons/siring mechanism which simply works different in VtM. Oh and those human-looking sunwalkers don't really have an equivalenr, a hyper high humanity Vampire on the parh of Golconda is the closest yet still very different.

[LegalLoliLover]

1. Yeah, being unable to stay up during the day is a telltale sign of either low humanity or being unable to follow your chosen Road/path.
2. Well, apart from the eyes, the Shiki aren't that corpse-like. In terms of those eyes, even in VtM, it's pretty inconsistent, given that in Bloodlines, I've seen them on some (but not all) Nosferatu (Mitnick and Bertram, but not Gary or Imalia; I'm sure that it's a coincidence that Mitnick and Bertram are IT guys), as well as shovelheads of unknown bloodline. Beckett has red eyes, but those are obviously bestial, rather than "undead".
3. Yep, as with privacy obsession. In terms of holy objects, can one clan's curse be another's flaw?

4. Feeding appears to be the same. If you don't want to turn someone, don't drain them. As for Embracing, Shiki rising appears to be a Gacha game, while Embracing is obviously much more controllable in VtM, depending on whether or not the nearly drained kine is fed any Kindred vitae. Shiki have never really tried a "proper" Embrace with vitae sharing. I chalk that up to the fact that Sunako was never properly taught that (or anything) by her sire. However, I can totally see the possibility of saliva (given that several Nosferatu in Bloodlines make drooling noises whenever they hear or receive something "juicy", I'm assuming that Kindred do have saliva) or something allowing for the very tiny chance of a "haphazard Embrace" when no Kindred vitae is given for a proper Embrace.

5. Yeah, the daywalkers are a bit of an anomaly, given that they are not only able to withstand sunlight but are generally stronger than common Shiki, which is different from ghouls and thin-bloods who can withstand sunlight but also have less power overall.
6. Not quite Golconda, but jinrou appear to either have been Embraced willingly or have a special personality trait, as referenced by this comment: https://shiki.fandom.com/wiki/Jinrou "The only Jinrou we know about have two-sided personalities -- Seishin was extremely kind to others, but despised people's expectations of him; Natsuno hated the village and wanted to leave, but he stayed to expose the Shiki to the villiagers; Tatsumi is a sadist, but he ultimately cares for Sunako; Yoshie cared about everyone, but really only listened to Sunako for her own intentions"

[Zork Knight]

Also about V5

The Lasombra are in the process of joining the Camarilla. The price being that for each Lasombra that join, another must be destroyed. The Camarilla wants those sweet, sweet Catholic Church contacts the Lasombra have.

[LegalLoliLover]

Oh, right, this Lasombra: https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Am...s_Mon%C3%A7ada essentially did the Kindred equivalent of a pro-gamer move by being able to use True Faith without following the Road of Heaven (he followed the Path of Power and the Inner Voice). Despite being nominally Sabbat, his self-attested allegiance is to God.