Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Blastedspider]

I mean, what humanity is doing right now is the planetary equivalent of pouring gasoline everywhere inside your house, while you're locked inside, and then juggling lit torches, and saying it's fine because the house has never burned down before.

To be fair the vast majority of predictions are about as accurate as haruspicy. I mean, its 2020: according to books I've read in elementary school we should already be extinct several times over.

[Kamera]

Descartes killed people?

he was a mercenary

[the god of world-0]

But that is what I am saying. there are a lot of people in the world, we can't ALL be killing the planet

[asterism42]

he was a mercenary

I don't know a lot about him, but I didn't think he was the type.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

To be fair the vast majority of predictions are about as accurate as haruspicy. I mean, its 2020: according to books I've read in elementary school we should already be extinct several times over.

Remember 2012?
End of the world prediction is dog shit
End of the planet environment prediction is more reasonable

[the god of world-0]

Remember 2012?
End of the world prediction is dog shit
End of the planet environment prediction is more reasonable

I do agree with that. Like I said, I am a follower of Carl Segan

[Blastedspider]

Remember 2012?
End of the world prediction is dog shit
End of the planet environment prediction is more reasonable

Is there a meaningful distinction?

[the god of world-0]

Is there a meaningful distinction?

It's not "humanity destroying the planet, it's inevitable"

It's "well, there are people destroying the planet, maybe we should stop"

- - - Updated - - -

I am sorry for the ruckus, it just my "scared first trip Father" voice speaking while I am kinda of tirred and dying in this heat.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Is there a meaningful distinction?

2012 thing is end of everything on the planet
End of planet environment is basically Wall-E like end, human still kicking, but environment filled with thrases

[AAM1232]

I have a question: what does this have to do with FGO story and lore? Apart from being an obvious tangent for the Random Thoughts Thread.

[Deathhappens]

So did Musashi, so did Socrates, so did Wittgenstein, so did Nietzsche, so did Descartes.

You're taking "killed people" awfully metaphorically, unless you know something about Nietzsche's closet that I don't.

- - - Updated - - -

There's also a significant difference between killing people as a soldier in 400BC or a mercenary in 1580 and sending people mail bombs in 1980, but as has been pointed out we're far enough off-topic already.

[Zork Knight]

I'm pretty sure slavery is at an all-time low thanks to the industrial revolution too, so there goes the indignities, but I dunno what more (if anything) should be said in response to quoting the Unabomber

[fumei]

Here's some on-topic stuff to get us back on track - some good old crack from our friend Madao.

"It seems like the people in atlantis are preparing for velber's return"

Now, I don't really know where he's getting this from but it's the basis of what comes next so bear with me

"Maybe in the Atlantis LB the giant altera is still alive on the moon? It seems from what Kirsch says in the CM that artemis is more prepared against assault from the sky rather than extermination from the ground"

What Kirsch says in the CM is それは星を滅ぼし空を翔る船を落とす which I guess would roughly translate to something like "To shoot down the vessel which will drop from the sky" or whatever, I'm winging it a bit here. So, ignoring the fact that I think the giant Altera thing doesn't really hold up because there's no moon cell so why would she land on the moon in the first place, he's basically saying here that artemis is stationed as an anti-velber weapon.

This one is basically saying that since Kirsch doesn't fully understand / know the alien god and its intentions and all that which they talk about in the chapter quite a bit, the idea of "using gods as a system" (whatever that means) is out of the question, and while he did side with zeus who chose to continue the AoG, he doesn't approve of the "system of controlling humans" (not sure I got this right tho), so basically that's why he'll end the gods once and for all.

All this is sort of based on the idea that Kirsch isn't just following the alien god blindly, but is actually setting up for his own goal instead (there's that whole "I'll prove your theory marisbilly" thing too) so he's merely using the alien god's resources and all for the time being.
The same tweet then goes on to say "and what's a better trump card against the gods and the alien god than Surtr?", because he has some other tweets where he basically says that Surtr could've acted like a "second seraf" and maybe that was why Kirsch valued Scandinavia LB so highly even though it wouldn't have allowed him to be nearly omnipotent.

So basically, the short version is that Kirsch is just using the alien god for now, and wants to wipe it out along with the gods in his lostbelt, for which he needs Sefar (if she still exists) or an equivalent (Surtr). And now here's a thing to consider: if Sefar exists/velber is returning, then we have unknowingly already took out the one defense line they had against it (Artemis). In the same vein, we have already taken out two olympians, and we are bound to take down even more once on olympus, meaning if this really is Kirsch's goal, we're actually doing his dirty work for him and realizing his plans without even knowing it. I wouldn't be surprised honestly if we end up taking down Zeus as the last olympian before we fight Kirsch for the final time, just so he can be all "haha you fools my plan is fulfilled".

So yeah, Olympus hype.

[asterism42]

I can't sustain hype for that long. Maybe when I was 16 but not any more.

[Zork Knight]

... But Surtr and Sefar destroyed the Age(s?) of Gods? And Kirsch's thing seems to be wanting an ancient era where his phoney astronomy powers work

[Lily Emilio]

The theory falls apart when you realized Kirsch needs the cosmology of LB5 to fuel his meteor shower.

[Deathhappens]

Here's some on-topic stuff to get us back on track - some good old crack from our friend Madao.

"It seems like the people in atlantis are preparing for velber's return"

Now, I don't really know where he's getting this from but it's the basis of what comes next so bear with me

"Maybe in the Atlantis LB the giant altera is still alive on the moon? It seems from what Kirsch says in the CM that artemis is more prepared against assault from the sky rather than extermination from the ground"

What Kirsch says in the CM is それは星を滅ぼし空を翔る船を落とす which I guess would roughly translate to something like "To shoot down the vessel which will drop from the sky" or whatever, I'm winging it a bit here. So, ignoring the fact that I think the giant Altera thing doesn't really hold up because there's no moon cell so why would she land on the moon in the first place, he's basically saying here that artemis is stationed as an anti-velber weapon.

This one is basically saying that since Kirsch doesn't fully understand / know the alien god and its intentions and all that which they talk about in the chapter quite a bit, the idea of "using gods as a system" (whatever that means) is out of the question, and while he did side with zeus who chose to continue the AoG, he doesn't approve of the "system of controlling humans" (not sure I got this right tho), so basically that's why he'll end the gods once and for all.

All this is sort of based on the idea that Kirsch isn't just following the alien god blindly, but is actually setting up for his own goal instead (there's that whole "I'll prove your theory marisbilly" thing too) so he's merely using the alien god's resources and all for the time being.
The same tweet then goes on to say "and what's a better trump card against the gods and the alien god than Surtr?", because he has some other tweets where he basically says that Surtr could've acted like a "second seraf" and maybe that was why Kirsch valued Scandinavia LB so highly even though it wouldn't have allowed him to be nearly omnipotent.

So basically, the short version is that Kirsch is just using the alien god for now, and wants to wipe it out along with the gods in his lostbelt, for which he needs Sefar (if she still exists) or an equivalent (Surtr). And now here's a thing to consider: if Sefar exists/velber is returning, then we have unknowingly already took out the one defense line they had against it (Artemis). In the same vein, we have already taken out two olympians, and we are bound to take down even more once on olympus, meaning if this really is Kirsch's goal, we're actually doing his dirty work for him and realizing his plans without even knowing it. I wouldn't be surprised honestly if we end up taking down Zeus as the last olympian before we fight Kirsch for the final time, just so he can be all "haha you fools my plan is fulfilled".

So yeah, Olympus hype.

Sounds like a typical Eva nutjob theory, and I don't know how I feel about Fate going even farther in that direction.

[yokushi]

... But Surtr and Sefar destroyed the Age(s?) of Gods? And Kirsch's thing seems to be wanting an ancient era where his phoney astronomy powers work

Not quite, he already explained what his goal is back in LB2. He wants humans to use gods (instead of just serve them or discard them) to reach new heights and create a more stable human history.

[fumei]

... But Surtr and Sefar destroyed the Age(s?) of Gods? And Kirsch's thing seems to be wanting an ancient era where his phoney astronomy powers work

The theory falls apart when you realized Kirsch needs the cosmology of LB5 to fuel his meteor shower.

The meteor shower thing/"nearing omnipotence" I feel like could just as well simply be his means to reach the end. Once he achieves his "better history" then there's no use for it. Also, isn't it more accurate to say that the age of gods ended as a result of surtr and sefar killing the gods, not directly because of the fact the gods died? What I mean is that the idea might be to subjugate rather than kill the gods here, but he needs something very strong to do it (though I guess you could almost think he could take them out himself at this point so who knows).

Either way, crack will be crack, but it is interesting to think about some of the stuff brought up, even if the whole thing doesn't hold up.

[Blastedspider]

The theory falls apart when you realized Kirsch needs the cosmology of LB5 to fuel his meteor shower.

What if he needs to use a power like this just once.

- - - Updated - - -

And "Velber's return" might be about the fleet itself coming back to Sol rather than just the vessels it send to Earth.