From what was mentioned in Heian and Tunguska, it seems to me that any major mythological villain (or even total random like Kiara and Koyan) can become a Beast as long as they have love for humanity and enough sheer determination.Originally Posted by Bunhelier
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Or through sheer luck I guess.
Iunno there seems to be a inherent beastness at times but im not sure how much of that is just due to like character like tamamo and nero making it hard for me to tell.
Finished LB6. I wrote my thoughts in point form because I was lazy again but I probably wrote too much for this format.
- obvious statement right away, the worldbuilding in lb6 is clearly leagues above all other lostbelts. it's actually a world that has its own distinct cultures, locations, and history. a lot of lostbelts are basically just "x happened causing divergence, and now we're here" but this clearly felt like a living, breathing world that has been lived in for thousands of years
- the party this time around was best, very fun dynamic and banter and it pains me to admit this but i even liked red hare (the biggest twist of lb6). the comedy was also integrated much better than most chapters with fun moments like the river fairy and artoria just being a qt
- artoria is a really great character in general. the similarities she shares with (You), Mashu, and even Oberon (as a contrasting opposite) were done so well. i especially liked moments like the Norwich calamity where you can just feel her disappointment in herself when Mashu/(You) save the day. watching her grow over the course of the story and it all coming together during the final stand at the throne was just kino. i am very proud of my cute gf
- despite the memes Boggart was a pretty good character. overall I liked mashu's growth this chapter a lot; she had a lot of moments to shine and grow without (You) needing to be with her
- fairy clan head tier list: ainsel (cute) > woodwose (feels bad man) > knocknarea > muryan > aurora >= spriggan (both were meh imo; aurora just slightly better because of her final scene)
- fairy knight tier list: barghest >>>> melusine >> bob
- barghest was handled really well and matched perfectly with her fairy knight title: gawain was a much more earthly knight compared to other KotR like lancelot, he sinned and was burdened by family loyalty which conflicted with his desire to protect his country. barghest fighting her sinful nature while trying to be a good knight just felt so right. and her defeat at the hands of the knights she adored was kino
- melusine and bob's relation to their titles felt a bit more shallow. melusine was decent i suppose but bob was kinda meh and her character wasn't really explored well imo
- on that note, i'm not a big fan of how Percival/gareth just coincidentally look like PHH percival/gareth without any relation to their character. i mean their personalities and execution are still good but i really feel like it wouldn't have been hard to connect them somewhat to their PHH counterparts (even if it was done in a similar vein to artoria) for added impact. also i wish gareth had some relation to melu (besides being killed lol) given how gareth adored lancelot in actual legend
- some other complaints, beryl was meh. honestly the whole segment with pepe's death felt weird, like it was a random side-story just shoved in and then we immediately went back to the main story. still pepe dying was very sad. wish he would've stayed with us, second best crypter
- i liked tonelico/morgan backstory a lot but morgan herself was not handled well imo. i understand her anti-climatic death is intended as even the characters point it out. but i don't think it was an interesting end to her character at all and i really wish we would've had a proper artoria/morgan dialogue showdown to show the contrast in their journeys
- actually, a lot deaths were not treated with proper respect imo. for example, tristan went out really cool but then i feel like he was literally forgotten about seconds later. or oberon's "death" which nobody really mulled over too much. it didn't feel natural imo, i guess they're busy and stuff but i don't think most of the deaths were handled very well
- a lot of lb divergence points felt pretty silly (random meteor) but lb6 divergence was actually great and fitting. fairies are fucking dicks
- oberon was awesome and the red text was a fun idea. i somewhat think he didn't get the attention he deserved after the reveal, but maybe that's because the climax is so hectic dealing with threat after threat back to back. still, i wait for lb6 gacha as i must roll
- i like dark souls too
- lastly, and most important: as a certified (You)fan with many anime wives, i would like to say artoria is genuinely the best for (You) character in fate ever and literally the perfect gf.
Anyway, LB ranking: LB6 > LB5 (Atlantis) > LB1 > LB4 > LB6 (Olympus) > LB3 = LB2.
Time to pray for a Tunguska rerun.
I see no points on Muramasa trying to steal (Our) girls, don't tell me you're fine with NTR too Sesto???
Yeah I saw those memes/"controversy" too but even as a massive (You)fan Muramasa was completely harmless. It'd be like being jealous of your grandpa for teasing your girlfriend sometimes.
Muramasa can walk Artoria down the aisle when we get married, it's fine.
Barghest was my favorite Fae Knight too. Her whole arc is some extreme tragedy-kino. You love to see it.
I'm usually not a big fan of Amazonian titty-monsters, but the more important thing than character design is characterization and story, and I, too, ended up loving Barghest way more than I initially would've guessed. She compliments well LB6's overall story, her behaviors and fate an encapsulation and reflection of LB6's own history and ultimate development. Barghest helps to reinforce the narrative in a real compelling and natural way.
She is, dare I say, a good dog.
I understand where you're coming form w/Melusine, and I think that that's because Melusine being made to be Fairy Knight Lancelot is meant to be even more of an "attempt to fit a square peg into a round hole"-type situation than even Barghest is. Their roles end up quite comparable, but because Melusine originates from Albion, hers is a heritage that's very much extra-terrestrial and, ultimately, unearthly. She remains bound to LB6, unfitting. Yet, she's also doomed to share/mirror PHH Albion's fate of dying in Britain, unable to return to her stars.
I quite adore her. Strongest knight, indeed. Best dragon (okay, there's still Liz, sure, but...).
I agree with the thing about Bob. I didn't feel like her arc was wanting, but I can also see that it's more open than the others, and I fully expect T-M to def give a bit more of focus to her in the future, whether it be via Interlude(s) or if/when she gets a swimsuit.
My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
Her sadistic streak was born from Morgan's encouragement for her to never be the victim again, but with Morgan's apathetic attitude and focusing on her land instead, Spinel's behaviors were left unchecked. With Beryl's influence rubbed off on her makes matter worse.
Her character development could be used to delve into her backstory, and also making use of her Third Ascension somehow. The other Fae Knights were depicted with theirs back in Avalon le Fay, Barghest before she descent into a calamity, and Melusine's Red Hot Deviation variant when traveling to Avalon, so it would be unfair for Sith not to get her turn.
Aside of memes in the fandom, when I've read the LB6 itself (Neobenedict translation) it seems it's just memes. Muramasa doesn't seem to be interested in any girls. He is also way more interesting than "see, a F/SN reference".I see no points on Muramasa trying to steal (Our) girls, don't tell me you're fine with NTR too Sesto???
Artoria uses "daisuki" towards him however (Neobenedict choose to translate it is as "like") and is towards Muramasa rather than Master (it is clear when you read it in the game itself, while was not clear in raw text script, because it doesn't show the VN part). IMO it is a nod to F/SN, however I heard this specific wording could be used for family members, even if rarely, and isn't even a plotline, just a single line.
Anyway, LB6 was way better in regards of F/SN references than memes portrayed it (I don't like when whole plot points are just copies of existing story, but one line references are fine). I am still sad that Muramasa is dead and will not fist fight Rasputin in 6.5/7 though.
This is almost exactly my own thoughts on the chapter as well, though with some differing pointers.
For one, while I did like Artoria as a character overall, for a lot of the early parts she didn't really click with me. I think she relies too heavily on circumstance to even begin to show her own character, and during the first two parts she keeps wildly fluctuating between "yeah let's go I'm the child of prophecy" and "haha jk that can't be me no i suck too much i wanna hide". And this is fine in theory, it's just that it drags on for so long after you would think she got over it. There are only so many times a character can go back on their own development and still have it be interesting. Even in later part 2 and 3 when she does eventually grow out of that cycle, she mostly takes a position on the sidelines being secretly mad (which is understandable, but not necessarily interesting from a character interaction pov) because of her fairy eyes, and even when she does take front and center it's usually just to reiterate to someone that she's the child of prophecy and this is her duty. For me, the most interesting scenes with Artoria are her flashbacks, obviously, and then when you get closer to the end of her arc (Avalon, cerny fight, guardian mode). So I do like her as a character, but I also think her character is rather weak for a lot of the story, because for almost 2/3 of it her arc is essentially flat (or rather, it has a net-zero change).
I also found it a bit weird with the "meta-commentary" she has in regards to OG Saber, but that might be something I'm not remembering enough about for it to make thematic sense in my head right now, but the parts where Castoria dreams/reflects on the life of OG Saber, a lot of it seems angry, reviled, and almost mocking at first, but later on I guess it does shift to less of a rejection of her ways and more of a "oh shit this is gonna be me too". The thing that sort of rubs me wrong about it is that you would think her character would act more like a thematic counterpart to OG Saber, who was a machine-like king for the sake of her country. But in the end, the payoff is more or less the same, with Castoria becoming a conceptual sword under the rule of the world. Just a bit weird.
Anyway, about your clan head list, and death scenes being given proper respect in this chapter, that's something that sticks out most to me at the bottom of your list. Spriggan is just so weird and insanely abrupt for an end to his whole arc, and meanwhile Aurora (who SUCKS btw, and is a total cunt) gets this super long death scene. Like it's just so long. And I get that it's partly to tie in with Lancelot's characterization, but it's still very much focused on Aurora herself and really trying to reel in those sympathy points at the very end, but in my opinion it just totally overdoes it and it wraps back around to being annoying.
Lastly, about the fairy knights, I do agree that Baggeko was leagues better than the rest. Melusine has her moments, and I think it should be able to work on the same level, but it just doesn't hit home for some reason. Perhaps it's again due to her being so intrinsically connected to multiple other characters' stories and they overshadow hers in a sense? Who knows. However, regarding Bao, and consequently Morgan, I think she was just so bad overall. It didn't really help that she was saddled with Beryl for most of the story (who also just sucks as a character, jesus christ is he boring), but the major issue with her for me is that her arc (insofar as she can be said to even have one, especially compared to the rest of the cast) ends very abruptly and without any payoff whatsoever (whether negative or positive). After she becomes furry Roche, she doesn't have anything else. There are no thoughts slipping out from Cerny or anything even influencing him to hint at her still being there and affecting him somehow to carry out some last wish or whatever (unless you count that one piece of bgm, which I don't because it's not story), she's simply just gone. Nothing that she worked for was attained or even really bereaved of her (though I guess you could argue that what she wanted was true affection and that was bereaved). She's just suddenly out of the story without having accomplished anything or grown as a character. Everything she does to affect the player could've just as well been done by Beryl himself, instead of him using her to do it indirectly. Even Aurora and Woodwose had parts for them to be fleshed out and actually have their arcs culminate in something, even if Aurora is still a massive dickhead and I hate her. Bao in the end feels like she was supposed to be a sort of mirror to Mashu, in the sense that she's someone Beryl has but does not want (and toys with her life for that reason), while Mashu is someone he wants but can't have. But even that just falls kinda flat, partly because if that was the intention they could've shown that much better in my opinion, and I guess in the end it's also affected by the simple fact that Beryl's arc is also just kinda doodoo. Something I frequently see people use as an argument against this is that she's supposed to represent the final remaining kindness within Morgan and all that, but the thing is that even that just gives characterization to Morgan, not to Bao herself.
And I obviously fully agree on Morgan's death, though I don't think I've really seen anyone be like "yeah that was handled really well".
My own ranking right now is something like (mostly in order within their tiers, at least for the top ones):
peak fgo: lb6, atlantis, camelot, babylonia
REALLY good: lb4, salem, lb1
really good but with some minor shortcomings: olympus, lb3, ccc
decent enough: lb2, tunguska, shinjuku, scramble, shimousa, ooku
not that good but not BAD: orleans, okeanos, america, fuyuki, london
BAD: septem, agartha, heian
Last edited by fumei; May 11th, 2022 at 06:16 AM. Reason: moved scramble, bit rude lol
What's so bad about Agartha again, I thought it was fine
Those commentaries is a reason I think Morgan >>>>> Artoria.
While Morgan directly uses PHH Morgan's memories, she is her own character and doesn't exist to comment on PHH self. Tonerico is different person, the end.
Meanwhile Artoria is a fairy who uses the same name, but is linked to PHH Artoria for unknown reason. PHH Artoria wasn't even born in Avalon, but was human manufactured by Merlin's machinations. How LB6 "bell" system even have knowledge about character who never existed within the LB? It's way too meta.
I generally don't like characters who exists to comment/extend on other characters.
Very sexist, and also kinda homophobic, and just in poor taste in general
Personally, it's probably Fergus Lily. Especially his final speech to Schez is kinda off-putting despite the supposed good intentions. I, for one, liked Agartha for the plot points it's trying to achieve(Hollow Earth, Alf Layla Wa Layla's Reality Marble applications), but the narrations, the characters, and about the three women kingdoms could've been better executed.
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Though I remember fumei already listed out his reasons for Heian being bad, I still have yet to experience Heian-kyo for myself in NA, so I'll reserve my impressions till then.
Thinking about it I think one of my issues with Melusine is a lot of her characterization is left until the very end unnecessarily. There were a few "twists" related to her (Percival, Aurora, Albion) and besides the last I'm not really sure they needed to be kept hidden for so long because they were either obvious (Percival) or really not worth hiding (Aurora). I feel like they could've been revealed/explained far earlier to avoid having everything dropped near the end where there is already so much going on. Also I do think the whole "protect Britain" aspect of her character could have been emphasized more pre-transformation.
I do understand what you mean but I suppose this didn't bother me much. I thought the progression felt fairly natural; people generally don't overcome their doubts in one critical moment and are never burdened by them again, it usually involves being constantly knocked down and getting back up again. But I also sped through the early sections because the adventure was so enjoyable, so that could be another reason it didn't bother me.
On Aurora, while I don't particularly care for the character too much, the last few moments of self-reflection before her death did slightly redeem her in my eyes (not as a person, but as a character). This excerpt was good, for example:
But yeah overall the amount of focus she gets near the end was too much for my liking, especially when the whole innocent usurper characterization is kinda just whatever.Narration:
All she had was a scheme. She just wanted to look good in front of her attendants.
“The most beautiful fairy in Britain saving the most repulsive thing in Britain. ”
An act meant to show how being able to do this made her more wonderful than anyone else.
I don't have an issue with this honestly. Given her connection to Excalibur it's understandable why there would be a link to PHH Artoria. And I think Caster Artoria perfectly serves as her own character regardless of the link anyway.
That said, once again I'm annoyed we never truly got a proper verbal showdown between Morgan and Artoria. Given how much focus there was to show how Artoria was simply following in the footsteps of Tonelico, it just felt like wasted potential to not give a proper conclusion to the mirrored journey. Even something with Mashu would've been nice.
Could some of the stuff be remnants from before the rewrite? Sesto I really like that point you made about how you dont overcome things in one go
I don't think those exist, considering Nasu's schedule.
What's with the obsession with Nasu supposedly leaving stuff from before he rewrote LB6? People talk about it all the time but as far as I know there is nothing in the actual game that's a remnant of that.
Mostly in regards to Castoria like her harshness towards Merlin (who she has no relationship with) or it making it seem like she watched over Fou (which also never happened)
I think Caster Artoria's line about Merlin involving Cath Palug (Fou) does not make any sense given what we know of her and her life, so that could be a remnant of the original LB6 plot, she also refers to that again in her Koyanskaya line as well.
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