She has no Nega skill, so I don't think she is truly Beast VII. Even the wording of "using its saint graph as a vessel" is repeated in the official Olympus recap slides, which sounds more like "borrowing this thing so I have a body" than "here lies the Beast of the End."Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory
It's deeply weird and feels like a misunderstanding of the way Mexica cosmology works, which I guess wouldn't be an unprecedented misunderstanding if what you're familiar with are the myths rather than the mythology, if that makes sense.
The Four Tezcatlipocas are "aspects" of the same divinity, and the Black Tezcatlipoca is the one closest to the Ometeotl in character, but that doesn't make them the same god. I guess the closest analogy is the Hindu Trimurti. Brahma is God the Creator, Vishnu is God the Preserver, Shiva is God the Destroyer. They're three faces of one underlying divinity, but those three faces have different expressions. Tlaloc isn't just Moist Tezcatlipoca, he is a different facet of the power of the universe with different cosmic responsibilities.
But that nuance might get somewhat lost if what you're familiar with is just the idea of there being Four Tezcatlipocas. Then you get the weird twist we got here.
Tfw your research is wiki and your Engrish is weak: hire a Russian consultant!
I would say the syncretism thing is a way to spare writting. Limiting the setting so you don't dwell to deep in it and neglect other mythologies (which he does anyway), also a less lot work. Why write about 2 sun gods when you can make them the same for reasons? something like that. Also the syncretism exists, the use he give it here is only a wacky interpretation of that.
Is the Tezcatlipoca thing legtimate or only speculation?
Last edited by ballinamon; February 5th, 2023 at 11:15 AM.
That shouldn't matter when:
1. he's not going to be the only person writing for Fate anyway
2. if he doesn't want to write anymore Aztec servants he doesn't have to
3. he shows blatant favoritism for what he chooses to write anyway just like all the other writers with only rare peeks into other cultures like Requiem or the once-in-a-blue-moon events like the Trung Sisters one early last year
Last edited by Formless Creature; February 5th, 2023 at 03:16 PM.
In a way this no-fucks-given approach to adapting myths and legends into Fate is part of what made it boom.
That being said I totally understand why you would be miffed if a particular figure or set or figures you're specifically invested in seems to not have had the proper thought put into them, and that's also on the writer.
LB7 in general seems to fall victim to this, cuz it's not just its mythology, it's also its geological location that makes little to no sense given the mythology they went with. Surely they could've moved the big white bubble up a bit north in the world map.
Gotta say it doesn't have quite the same impact as when it's a list of only one or two actions.
Tezca's weird tho, and I don't quite get why he had to be Grand Assassin when he was sown as Grand Berserker in Olga's... dream... memory? whatever thingy.
burn your dread you coward
So, in the end, Quetz was right all this years in that he's the worst.
That vessel would have to be Olga's body then, no?
Personally, I think Olga's body just died on Lev's bombing.
What I mean is, if we assume the theory about the Priestess being Olga's soul split from her by Marisbilly to be the brain of Chaldeas before the start of the story to be correct. Then the Olga we met on the prologue is Mind/Body Olga. Body dies on Lev's bombing, Mind gets rayshifted with us to Fuyuki and then threw into Chaldeas by Lev where it gets tortured and reprogram into the Alien God.
It would explain why as the Alien God she needed a body to descend to Earth, because her original body got killed/destroyed in the first place, so in order to summon Mind as a servant it was necesary to make her a new body/a saint graph to contain her as a vessel.
Honestly, it feels like a lot of technicalities and semantics to untangle. I feel like the overall picture is, UOM is truly Olga in whatever sense that can be applied, and she is genuinely a divinity. Those seven authorities are likely not a joke, and Tachyon Jail alone is worthy of a god. Her not having a Nega skill is evidence against her being the genuine Beast VII with no caveats or asterisks, but I don't think the answer is something like "Chaldeas is the real Beast VII" or "Marisbury is Beast VII" (though he may be).
I'm still betting on her being a composite including Sanat Kumara
I came up with a theory that U-Olga consists of Olga and Subject E. That the two has equal control over the vessel and so their personalities and memories got merged and jumbled up.
It's more likely that the "Subject E" memories are fabricated ones meant to keep her from thinking too hard about why she really wants to destroy Human Order (mainly, because she actually doesn't).
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Not quite. If she's been compelled to act as a proxy, she may have simply been allowed to use those abilities by virtue of that fact without them genuinely belonging to her. So the Authorities are real, but her ownership of them is not.
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But assuming we somehow free Soul (which is almost certainly either stuck in the Priestess or in CHALDEAS- whether it happened before or after Lev threw her inside is currently impossible to know) and use it to regenerate a new body and mind for her, doesn't that leave us with two Olgas? And at that matter, if it happens will she even have any memories from Mind/Body Olga or would those have ceased to exist with them?
She could have two gods shove inside her like the other Apostles and the Authorities could come from them.
Sanat Kumara like Zork Knight mention ain't a bad guess, specially given all the cosmic stuff Theosophists like Helena associated them with.
Sanat was even one of the most popular/stronger theories for the Alien God's identity before Olympus.
Fair, and given how completely out of left field the other gods that were built in could be (like Rasputin's) it could offer an explanation for the range of power she could display, if not its degree. That part at least seems like it would be more directly attributable to the Alien World, as would her Beast class- given her role as an overseer of the other Apostles, it makes sense she'd have stronger ties to the Alien World (and by extension have more of her will subjugated to it).
It kind of bugs me that the Qliphoth theory still works really well, despite Koyanskaya not being V. Though, personally, I prefer to look at it through the lens of the Sefirot and how the Beasts are twisted versions of that (mostly because there's better information on the Sefirot than the Qliphoth).
Beast I: Malkuth is defined as kingdom/kingship and concerns God's creation (mankind). Goetia taking the place of a king who wants to remake mankind according to his own design is very much a corruption of Malkuth.
Beast II: Yesod is fertility, the foundation of creation. Tiamat is self-explanatory.
Beast III: Hod and Netzach are a little hard to explain, but they're concerned with how one acts in response to desires and obstacles. Hod is the principle of submitting to those desires, while Netzach is the conquering of those desires. Kama removes desire by fulfilling everyone's, Kiara provides salvation by taking it all.
Beast IV: Tif'eret is harmony and balance. Primate Murder and Koyanskaya both thrive off of violence and discord between mankind (or in Koyanskaya's case, the discord between mankind and animals). When humans don't live in harmony with each other, or with other species, you get Beast IV.
Beast V: Gevurah and Chesed are two extremes of judgment. Gevurah is basically legalism while Chesed is mercy. Were there to be two halves of Beast V based on these Sefirot, L would probably be a harsh, unforgiving judger of humanity, while R would probably give a pass to all evil out of excessive empathy.
Beast VI: Binah and Chokhmah are basically knowledge. Importantly, both Sefirot are associated with spiritual knowledge, rather than earthly. Binah is rational thought and comprehension (and funny enough, associated with mothers) while Chokhmah is divine wisdom or inspiration. S being Mother Harlot and thriving off of materialism and civilization, using the Holy Grail against mankind, is pretty much in line with Binah. Not much is known about G/666, but Chokhmah would play into Nega-Messiah very well, moreso than S. "Negates all blessings from faith."
Beast VII: Keter is the crown of God. Olga is the Alien God and wants to rule Earth. Self-explanatory.
Can't rule out V having two halves, of course. It could feel a little cramped this late in the game with no apparent setup, but who knows what Nasu has in mind. I think it does fit really well, especially seeing how Hod and Netzach are contrary while Binah and Chokhmah are complementary. That being said, another way to look at this is that V is actually based on the sefira Da'at, which is the sharing of knowledge. A corruption of that would be greed and obsession over knowledge.
Notwithstanding the awkward questions about whether U-Olga is actually Beast VII, where does Camazotz fit into this?
Camazotz is just LB Goetia.
Just like Goetia used humanity as a fuel for his ritual to save humankind's future (as he understand that), so did Batman (he consumed his whole civilisation and made it part of himself) to beat ORT.
He doesn't, he's a Beast from a different system.
IMO Subject E is just Olga after she fell into Chaldeas.
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