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Thread: Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #66701
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    As one of the Reddit comments notes, they probably want to be the 'good guys' fighting against a generic evil enemy, rather than the grey morality and sacrificing innocent people of the Lostbelts
    I personally think that one of the big themes of Part 2 is going to be that there are no real villains, I feel like everything was caused by a tragic accident or misunderstanding. The new OP theme says "anger and despair travel from person to person, they create an invisible enemy and incite us to fight," and Castoria says "I think everyone would know that there is no distinction between good and bad people if they understand the true state of affairs."
    Last edited by rocohanda; September 16th, 2020 at 08:50 PM.

  2. #66702
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Arha's Avatar
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    Yeah there is no difference between good and evil, Beryl just tripped and accidentally planted Wodime's birthday present in his back.

  3. #66703
    If it wasn't for Beryl burning down the fantasy tree, it was a total victory for the Alien God.

  4. #66704
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Arha's Avatar
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    Kotomine is also just strongly pro life, but like many religious figures this only pertains from conception until birth. Mephistoface, meanwhile, is just the world's worst clown.

  5. #66705
    Well, I think there is still time to turn things around by revealing more about the characters. Xu Fu ended up being mostly innocent despite the initial impression of her being behind inhuman experiments with kids and villagers.

  6. #66706
    ちちうえ~❤ AmADo VII's Avatar
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    Fujimaru's dream is to become Steven Seagal.

  7. #66707
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    We'll most definitely learn more about them later, but at the current moment the Alter Egos' motivations are already established clearly enough.

    Kotomine is just Kotomine. A guy born evil but raised into an arguably decent person by his moral Catholic upbringing. In /stay Night, he wanted to allow Angra to be born because Angra is unquestionably born evil, so if Kotomine could raise him into a good boy, he would prove to himself that good nurture can overcame an evil nature. Here in FGO, however, the ultimate evil Kotomine was expecting actually managed to be born, so his role in this second half will be being the only parent Olga Marie ever had.

    Douman is explained by Koyanskaya (a mind reader, therefore a reliable source) in LB4. She describes Seimei as a man so full of himself that he honestly believes he can keep a leash on his evil bastard friend, and Douman as a treacherous snake friend who escalates his evil just to spite Seimei's attempts to redeem him. Expect some narrative parallels to Kotomine's parenting of Olga.

    Koyanskaya claims her only interests are collecting creatures and bullying humans, but she already let out that her real goal is to become a brand new Beast, completely detached from Amaterasu. Knowing she's one of the Tamamo Nine, we can extrapolate that she was created to be immediately discarded by Tamamo Original so her goal may be rooted on a wish to become something more meaningful than the living garbage she was originated as. Her Skills as a Beast are also themed after her roles in each Lostbelt, so it's very safe to assume her plan is to created a new legend for herself through the combined Lostbelts to replace the Amaterase lore she's rejecting.

    Muramasa has a flashback in Shimousa where he explains that becoming a blacksmith made him get well fed while everyone around him was starving to death, so he needs to create the ultimate katana or else he will never consider himself deserving of having survived starvation. Classic Shirou survivor guilt. No solid word on why he's siding with the villains, but his goal is one where it really doesn't matter who his allies are.

  8. #66708
    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    Muramasa has a flashback in Shimousa where he explains that becoming a blacksmith made him get well fed while everyone around him was starving to death, so he needs to create the ultimate katana or else he will never consider himself deserving of having survived starvation. Classic Shirou survivor guilt. No solid word on why he's siding with the villains, but his goal is one where it really doesn't matter who his allies are.
    I've read people in JP Twitter speculate that Muramasa's ultimate katana, supposed to be able to separate a person from their destiny and Origin, might be the key to resolve the issue with U-Olga-Marie.

    Anyway, I do think you're mostly spot on, specially about Kotomine.
    Last edited by rocohanda; September 17th, 2020 at 12:14 AM.

  9. #66709
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    Kotomine is just Kotomine. A guy born evil but raised into an arguably decent person by his moral Catholic upbringing. In /stay Night, he wanted to allow Angra to be born because Angra is unquestionably born evil, so if Kotomine could raise him into a good boy, he would prove to himself that good nurture can overcame an evil nature. Here in FGO, however, the ultimate evil Kotomine was expecting actually managed to be born, so his role in this second half will be being the only parent Olga Marie ever had.
    I never got the impression that Kirei wanted to raise Angra to be good, but rather that he refused to reject the latter's will to be born because if Angra were rejected, so would he be, and Angra is proof that his existence isn't a mistake of God's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  10. #66710
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    I don't remember anymore what got more focus on the VN, but the 3rd Heaven's Feel movie was pretty big on the "Will he follow his nature as evil and kill many, or will he learn kindness and coexist?" part of the speech.

  11. #66711
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Ah, I see. I always thought Kotomine and Shirou both acknowledged that Angra Mainyu was inherently evil and could not be made to do good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  12. #66712
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six asterism42's Avatar
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    I mean, Ataraxia demonstrates that's incredibly not true. Even before that, he saved Bazett's life just because he could
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  13. #66713
    かか Strange_One's Avatar
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    Doesn't it depend on how AM manifests?

    Originally an evil monster thing birthed from the grail.
    Then in F/Z as a simple minded grail terminal version of Iri.
    The popularised one is manifest from shirou, Mr wannabe hero of justice himself.

    So my take on it, was that any redeeming personality aspects are taken from Shirou.
    And this is from before all this pseudo and demi servant mess from FGO.
    BEHOLD! THE SIG OF GOLDEN TRUTH! Pillaged from McJon, Tsukikan et al.


  14. #66714
    We Want to Protect that Head OverMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocohanda View Post
    Well, I think there is still time to turn things around by revealing more about the characters. Xu Fu ended up being mostly innocent despite the initial impression of her being behind inhuman experiments with kids and villagers.
    There's just so many times one can go back to the well of "Lol, look me act as a complete cruel asshole on and on and on, whoops now I have my big reveal, I was doing things for good all the time while I killed your friends, now feel bad for me. Oh, and roll for me while you're at it" before it grows stale as hell.

    The Fate franchise as a whole and Grand Order in particular crossed that point long ago, it's arguable HOW long ago, but long ago anyway.

    Sometimes an asshole is just an asshole. That applies to real life as well and it's a lesson to learn on its own.
    Last edited by OverMaster; September 17th, 2020 at 10:28 AM.

  15. #66715
    Quote Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
    There's just so many times one can go back to the well of "Lol, look me act as a complete cruel asshole on and on and on, whoops now I have my big reveal, I was doing things for good all the time while I killed your friends, now feel bad for me. Oh, and roll for me while you're at it" before it grows stale as hell.
    ...when did this even happen?
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

  16. #66716
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    I don't remember anymore what got more focus on the VN, but the 3rd Heaven's Feel movie was pretty big on the "Will he follow his nature as evil and kill many, or will he learn kindness and coexist?" part of the speech.
    The man should have just watched Last Encore instead.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  17. #66717
    死徒 Dead Apostle Dragolord09's Avatar
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    So, what stories do the other new interludes have?

  18. #66718
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    I haven't checked the others, but Red Hare's is his usual identity crisis fare. Ultimately Chen Gong convinces him he's not Lu Bu by asking Mash to read the name in his profile on Chaldea's log.

    Then Chen Gong gives his final explanation.
    Chen Gong: It makes perfect sense he can't clearly identify himself as a horse.

    Fujimaru: What do you mean?

    Chen Gong: Just take a step back and think. First, imagined how General Lu was like. Human yet inhuman, magnificent as a god of steel dashing the battlefields, that is Lu Bu Fengxian. With this in mind, would his mount Red Hare be an ordinary horse or not? He was a horse of steel, fit for the god of steel ruling over the battlefields- or perhaps you could consider him an ex-horse modified into a horse of steel? Have I ever mentioned to you? Red Hare sometimes wishes for a flight function...

    Red Hare [in flashback]: Chen Gong, my tactician! Install at least a flight function in me, if you will!

    Chen Gong: Sometimes he wishes for true unity of rider and horse.

    Red Hare [in flashback]: Now is the time for true unity of rider and horse: Exared Form!

    Chen Gong: Would a regular horse desire such things?

  19. #66719
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Arha's Avatar
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    So just confirming he's a gag character then.

  20. #66720
    We Want to Protect that Head OverMaster's Avatar
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    It should have been about Llamrei and Bucephalus mocking him instead.

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