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Thread: Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #73661
    Wyrd oft nereš unfǽgne eorl, žonne his ellen déah... Skull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Tbh, there is no need to merge Kundry with any other character because she's based on Wolfram’s Parzival Cundrie the Sorceress
    Well, “based on” in the sense that like most of Wagner’s characters it’s extreme broad strokes but yes I agree that there isn’t a need to merge her with anyone since she can easily stand on her own thanks to a distinct and fleshed out backstory.
    "Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"

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  2. #73662
    Lie Like Vortigern Reign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    She's a witch as Kundry, but I don't think she was a witch as Herodias. She was a Valkyrie in one incarnation, so she can change species in her cycle.
    Yeah Requiem listed "Herod's wife" and "witch" separately so I don't think she was one as Herodias either.
    It was from world to world that she wandered, reincarnating over and over, yet retaining her memories. Once, she had been a witch; once, the consort of King Herod II. It was even said that she was once a Valkyrie, one of the daughters of the Allfather Odin.
    Also it alluded to her charm kiss:
    Once more, I had been careless. Her Noble Phantasm had been neither her mount, nor her lips of awakening. It had not even crossed my mind that she might possess this spear, both blessed and cursed.
    Glad to finally know what the heck Erice meant by that after all this time.

  3. #73663
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    Witches are a type of fairy.
    They are? How?

    Constantine the 11th:

    STR: C
    END: A
    AGI: C
    MAG: D
    LUC: C
    NP: EX

    That's not good at all.
    Last edited by Laserman; May 18th, 2022 at 02:31 PM.
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrapnel View Post
    Bob the Builder's evil twin.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    HF felt like Nasu holding up a megaphone and screaming, "LOOK AT HOW SAD THIS IS! ISN'T IT SAD? YOU SHOULD FEEL SAD!"


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
    > Einzbern

    > Making smart decisions


    Pick one


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Palingenesis just sounds like we're creating Sarah Palin.


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    >tfw you betray your ideals to get some


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    In short, Japan's syncretism BS striked again.




  4. #73664
    Lie Like Vortigern Reign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman View Post
    They are? How?
    In Lostbelt 6 when Beryl is dying he has a flashback to his mom, who was a Witch, and she says they're a kind of fairy who aren't supposed to have kids with humans because it rots their souls. She says she's jealous of Alice from Mahoyo, who is a half-witch like Beryl is.

  5. #73665
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Byegod's Avatar
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    reminded of that old mahoyo detail about how the ploys arent from the age of gods or whatever when talking bout like.. reversion to the age of gods? or whatever triat they talk about

  6. #73666
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    If you ever wonder why fairies do something strange or cruel it's because they're terrible and deserve to be purged.
    I mean they are. Thinking back on it, they just freaking are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    Characterization of LB inhabitants are always hit or miss anyways. So far I stand by my opinion that LB1 and LB6 had the best characterization of their inhabitants.
    The characterization of them being super terrible. Why would I want to read about them being terrible?

    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    I also found it a bit weird with the "meta-commentary" she has in regards to OG Saber, but that might be something I'm not remembering enough about for it to make thematic sense in my head right now, but the parts where Castoria dreams/reflects on the life of OG Saber, a lot of it seems angry, reviled, and almost mocking at first, but later on I guess it does shift to less of a rejection of her ways and more of a "oh shit this is gonna be me too". The thing that sort of rubs me wrong about it is that you would think her character would act more like a thematic counterpart to OG Saber, who was a machine-like king for the sake of her country. But in the end, the payoff is more or less the same, with Castoria becoming a conceptual sword under the rule of the world. Just a bit weird.
    That was terrible too, if anything, she should have been wishing she was more like her. That with the self doubt was just bad.
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrapnel View Post
    Bob the Builder's evil twin.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    HF felt like Nasu holding up a megaphone and screaming, "LOOK AT HOW SAD THIS IS! ISN'T IT SAD? YOU SHOULD FEEL SAD!"


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
    > Einzbern

    > Making smart decisions


    Pick one


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Palingenesis just sounds like we're creating Sarah Palin.


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    >tfw you betray your ideals to get some


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    In short, Japan's syncretism BS striked again.




  7. #73667
    不明 fumei's Avatar
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    Constantine's lines

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman View Post
    The characterization of them being super terrible. Why would I want to read about them being terrible?
    Well, at the end of the day the point isn't always to show why you should feel bad about the characters living there, or for the story to convince you that you actually do want to save them (so that you can then feel worse about not being able to when you inevitably have to cull the Lostbelt). The point, sometimes, like in LB6, is just to paint an "objective" picture of the people within this alternate history. The fairies were terrible, but on the surface it did not seem like that. That's what makes the whole story here, the transition from the initial like and empathy for the fairies, towards whatever you felt at the very end when they all show their true colors. Showing how "people" are shitty even when history is nothing like PHH is just as important as showing that there can be good people in the same scenario. And arguably, LB6 manages this by showing that despite so many fairies being absolutely terrible, Gudao & co still want to save some of them because they were truly good, but simply bound by circumstance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Ugh cokesakto no no no
    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
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    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.

  8. #73668
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    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    I wish he had something to say to Vlad as the guy who managed to drive off Mehmed.

  9. #73669
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    We can expect additional dialogues after Traum, at least.


  10. #73670
    Wyrd oft nereš unfǽgne eorl, žonne his ellen déah... Skull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    -Balin performs the Dolorous Stroke, Klingsor steals Longinus (physical object)
    -Balin gives Longinus (magical energy essence) to Percival
    Wait what? Someone can just yoink the essence out of the Holy Spear and just give it to someone else? If it was Merlin doing it then it’d be understandable but a regular dude like Balin?

    "Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"

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  11. #73671
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One rxrx's Avatar
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    It sure feels like Lion King's decision to preserve the good and purge the bad even though it is done differently.

  12. #73672
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Something about Longinus was brought up in Percival's interlude, that it was separated into physical spear and its energy, and then they're fused back by Percival at the end?


  13. #73673
    Quote Originally Posted by Reign View Post
    In Lostbelt 6 when Beryl is dying he has a flashback to his mom, who was a Witch, and she says they're a kind of fairy who aren't supposed to have kids with humans because it rots their souls. She says she's jealous of Alice from Mahoyo, who is a half-witch like Beryl is.
    She says Meinster, which is referring to Alice's mother as she's married to a human and got a child with him. She died after giving birth to Alice but I guess that's much better than what happened to Beryl's mother.

    By the way, to this day I still don't know if Meinster was the name of Alice's mother (like Robin mentioned in All about Ploys) or a specific name referred to all pure-blooded Witches.

  14. #73674
    屍鬼 Ghoul HeroicLegend's Avatar
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    My understanding based on translating the script using DeepL on the Longinus situation is that Klingsor throws Longinus at Percival only for it to not harm him, and Klingsor proceeds to make a copy out of the concentrated magic energy, and after Percival defeats Klingsor, the magic power of the copy is absorbed back into the physical Longinus.

  15. #73675
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    My understanding was Klingsor took the physical spear but Balin was able to hold onto the magical stuff that made it special and then he gave that to Percival to fight Klingsor with.

  16. #73676
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    No, I skipped a line on how Percival got the raw energy Longinus. Klingsor shot it at him and he just tanked it like it was nothing and grabbed it.

  17. #73677
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    Oh, so like an anime version of the fight from Parsifal.

    Klingsor appears on the castle rampart and hurls the Spear at Parsifal to destroy him, but it miraculously stops in midair, above his head. Parsifal seizes the Spear in his hand and makes with it the sign of the Cross, banishing Klingsor's magic.

  18. #73678
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    Constantine's lines

    - - - Updated - - -


    Well, at the end of the day the point isn't always to show why you should feel bad about the characters living there, or for the story to convince you that you actually do want to save them (so that you can then feel worse about not being able to when you inevitably have to cull the Lostbelt). The point, sometimes, like in LB6, is just to paint an "objective" picture of the people within this alternate history. The fairies were terrible, but on the surface it did not seem like that. That's what makes the whole story here, the transition from the initial like and empathy for the fairies, towards whatever you felt at the very end when they all show their true colors. Showing how "people" are shitty even when history is nothing like PHH is just as important as showing that there can be good people in the same scenario. And arguably, LB6 manages this by showing that despite so many fairies being absolutely terrible, Gudao & co still want to save some of them because they were truly good, but simply bound by circumstance.
    For me, this is somewhat undercut by the fact that the fairies are portrayed as more essentially evil and capricious as opposed to those traits forming as a result of various interacting circumstances. Not to say that people aren't just sometimes incredibly petty and cruel in a way that defies sociological analysis, but I would not say they're essentially evil the way the fairies were.
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    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
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    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
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    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  19. #73679
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Byegod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    For me, this is somewhat undercut by the fact that the fairies are portrayed as more essentially evil and capricious as opposed to those traits forming as a result of various interacting circumstances. Not to say that people aren't just sometimes incredibly petty and cruel in a way that defies sociological analysis, but I would not say they're essentially evil the way the fairies were.
    I feel like one part is that while fae often dont follow morality, i feel like they somewhat went too far into 'sadistic' vs alien morality/different morality.

    On this note i wonder how dullahan work, as there like ghosts labeled as fae

  20. #73680
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One asterism42's Avatar
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    Fun fact: Constantine's niece Zoe was Ivan the Terrible's grandmother
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

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