Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Bunhelier]

Well, yeah maybe because Rome has the biggest influence on them, i want to say the same thing about Hinduism but maybe you right, looking how hard Nasu wanking Buddhism.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Siddhartha Gautama is very much real, though?

[Blastedspider]

If Rome is the foundation of The whole Western civilization the what about the eastern civilization what is the foundation for that.

Han China and Maurya Empire.

[Bunhelier]

Siddhartha Gautama is very much real, though?

Yeah, but Siddharta is just a wise man who criticize hinduism, especially their caste system, all that bullshit about Boddhisattvas came later on.

[VTKajin]

Asian philosophies at this point are very syncretic and enough of it is universal to argue it's the foundation of Eastern civilization.

[AmADo VII]

Well, yeah maybe because Rome has the biggest influence on them, i want to say the same thing about Hinduism but maybe you right, looking how hard Nasu wanking Buddhism.

he did in Fate/Extra

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

From my point of view, honestly, the empire never really fell. The whole western civilization, in a sense, is Rome.

So far as the West exists outside of the fever dreams of long-dead racists, I'd say Rome is only one source of many, and that the empire I'd well and truly dead, even if some of the structures have been repurposed and reused to the current day.

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Hinduism predates Buddhism, in fact Hinduism is like the foundation of Buddhism, in a sense Hinduism is the original story and Buddhism is a fanfiction of it.

As a Hindu, I'll just say that Hinduism isn't a real thing, or at least wasn't prior to the late 19tg century, and Buddhism was just another tradition to emerge out of the larger wellspring of "Indian" religion and thought. Still, orthodox Hindu and Buddhist beliefs aren't compatible with each other.

[Byegod]

Saying hinduism is like saying 'native america religion'. It's like trying to put a entire continent of varying religions and folk religions under one label. OR saying there is no difference between any christian sect for another comparison.

One of the greatest shames is the lack of decent sources for a lot of non western religions, or hell stuff thats semi obscure within christianity becomes as well pain as well to look into, (Of course there are probably lots of books, but I often find finding said books or a source that can grab ones interest is the big issue, often just dead links or no citations whatsoever)

[Kamera]

You don't "look for decent sources" concerning religions. You convert to it and practice it yourself among their communities lol

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Or at least, talk to someone who belong to it.

[Nanaya]

That's how one ends up drinking the kool-aid.

[Ismail2002]

Okay, how does Kool-Aid factor in to all of this

[Kamera]

Only reddit atheists would equate following non-western religions to intellectual suicide.

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Anyways, to get back to the topic, I think the tendency of forcing "all myths and religions are true" into the TM cosmology would inevitably lead to some religion and pantheons to be shafted and screwed over in one way or another.

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This already happened with the Hindu Devas for example. From what we've seen, for a living religion they seem to be severely underwhelming compared to, say, Buddhism, Abrahamic or Greek Pantheon.

[Byegod]

I disagree to some extent, mainly cause i think there are easy ways to mitigate the damage, but not many writers actually try or think about it, it's only really a thing people talk about more nowadays

Of course it depends on what means by 'screwing over', like saying 'YHVH' or the trimurti/insert highest level god here isnt ruler of everything count as screwing over? Because I imagine usually people mean something else when it comes to screwing over. I see that as screwing over when its one religion above all others like a lot of western urban fantasy with christianity.

And I agree that fate has done it, but lets not act like thats a good thing either, and tbh the greeks got semi screwed cause we have only seen the lostbelt versions who are stronger than normal vs buddhism stuf being giga top tier without lostbelt stuff.

[Bunhelier]

This already happened with the Hindu Devas for example. From what we've seen, for a living religion they seem to be severely underwhelming compared to, say, Buddhism, Abrahamic or Greek Pantheon.

I think it was because their position in Buddhism was below a Buddha or Boddhisattva, heck even Shiva was downgraded to a mere God of Fortune in Japan and the fact that most of the times they're mentioned as their Buddhism or Japanese counterpart did not help either.

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Also the fact that Nasu favors Buddhism makes it worse i think.

[rxrx]

Only reddit atheists would equate following non-western religions to intellectual suicide.

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Anyways, to get back to the topic, I think the tendency of forcing "all myths and religions are true" into the TM cosmology would inevitably lead to some religion and pantheons to be shafted and screwed over in one way or another.

- - - Updated - - -

This already happened with the Hindu Devas for example. From what we've seen, for a living religion they seem to be severely underwhelming compared to, say, Buddhism, Abrahamic or Greek Pantheon.

I mean Indra equated to Raikou is a huge insult to Indra and a huge wank for the Japanese. Not to forget wanking Tamamo and Amateratsu to 大日如来

We also have gems like Arjuna jobbing to Scatha and the disappearance of Attila the Hun. While Sefar is cool and all, it doesn't justifying erasing Attila the Hun from history and for some reason belittle Karl since for some reason they became related to Aliens.

[Lily Emilio]

As a Hindu, I'll just say that Hinduism isn't a real thing, or at least wasn't prior to the late 19tg century, and Buddhism was just another tradition to emerge out of the larger wellspring of "Indian" religion and thought. Still, orthodox Hindu and Buddhist beliefs aren't compatible with each other.

FWIW in my country Vietnam, we generally refer to Hinduism as " đạo Bà La Môn" (literally means "religion of the Brahmin") or "Vệ Đà giáo" (Vedas religion). Not many ppl here would understand what you're talking about if you use the term "đạo Hindu" (Hinduism).

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I think it was because their position in Buddhism was below a Buddha or Boddhisattva, heck even Shiva was downgraded to a mere God of Fortune in Japan and the fact that most of the times they're mentioned as their Buddhism or Japanese counterpart did not help either.

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Also the fact that Nasu favors Buddhism makes it worse i think.

Incorrect. What nerfed the Devas was Nasu favoritism towards Taoism. Devas are still very powerful in Buddhist tradition and are usually guardians of Buddha (Indra even appeared when Buddha is born). They are also all capable of becoming Buddhas and vast majority of devas live in higher heavens together with bodhisattvas.

Devas in Taoism however, are below the ranks of both Buddhas and Xians, and aren't really impressive minus a very few top tiers who are also syncretized with certain Xians or heavenly generals.

[Kamera]

That line of thinking is probably what made Divine Spirits in general so unimpressive compared to Faeries or True Ancestor shenanigans.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Only reddit atheists would equate following non-western religions to intellectual suicide.

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Anyways, to get back to the topic, I think the tendency of forcing "all myths and religions are true" into the TM cosmology would inevitably lead to some religion and pantheons to be shafted and screwed over in one way or another.

- - - Updated - - -

This already happened with the Hindu Devas for example. From what we've seen, for a living religion they seem to be severely underwhelming compared to, say, Buddhism, Abrahamic or Greek Pantheon.

For the first part, that clearly isn't what they were going for, and I think you know it.

Also, the Devas have been continuously nerfed within our tradition for the past 1500 years at least. They've become wimpier and less revered to the point that I don't remember ever praying to them or learning shlokas for them.

[Bunhelier]

FWIW in my country Vietnam, we generally refer to Hinduism as " đạo Bà La Môn" (literally means "religion of the Brahmin") or "Vệ Đà giáo" (Vedas religion). Not many ppl here would understand what you're talking about if you use the term "đạo Hindu" (Hinduism).

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Incorrect. What nerfed the Devas was Nasu favoritism towards Taoism. Devas are still very powerful in Buddhist tradition and are usually guardians of Buddha (Indra even appeared when Buddha is born). They are also all capable of becoming Buddhas and vast majority of devas live in higher heavens together with bodhisattvas.

Devas in Taoism however, are below the ranks of both Buddhas and Xians, and aren't really impressive minus a very few top tiers who are also syncretized with certain Xians or heavenly generals.

I see, too bad that Nasu did them dirty. Just like how the Greek pantheon are the biggest in west, Hindu is the biggest pantheon in east and has the biggest influence all over Asia.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

FWIW in my country Vietnam, we generally refer to Hinduism as " đạo Bà La Môn" (literally means "religion of the Brahmin") or "Vệ Đà giáo" (Vedas religion). Not many ppl here would understand what you're talking about if you use the term "đạo Hindu" (Hinduism).

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Incorrect. What nerfed the Devas was Nasu favoritism towards Taoism. Devas are still very powerful in Buddhist tradition and are usually guardians of Buddha (Indra even appeared when Buddha is born). They are also all capable of becoming Buddhas and vast majority of devas live in higher heavens together with bodhisattvas.

Devas in Taoism however, are below the ranks of both Buddhas and Xians, and aren't really impressive minus a very few top tiers who are also syncretized with certain Xians or heavenly generals.

Can't say that description of mainline/"orthodox" Hinduism is inaccurate. Especially since people like Vivekananda attempted to define it as "Vedanta", which I honestly think is insultingly Brahmin-centric.

Also, I did not know that about Taoism, and now I know why to be sort of miffed at Nasu.