Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[Zork Knight]

No, both of his flashbacks were from after the plot the started. The first being about his deal with Kirschtaria and the second about his perspective on the things Morgan did. There was some extra confirmation that he comes from a witch family but that's kinda old news and still not elaborated upon.

But we did get to see what he can do in terms of replication and curse transfers, and we got a decent look at how his mind works. Stuff like the source of his hedonism and how he chooses who he kills and who he doesn't. Beryl's big thing is that he doesn't value life, be it his own or of others. He views living as a chore he needs to offset with

murder

fun

to make it tolerable. Even so, he still thought he'd never want to kill Morgan or Kirschtaria because they were, as far as he could tell, happy and boring.

All he cares about is killing two categories: interesting people and tragic people. He mentioned Barghest as his example of an interesting person but didn't elaborate on that entails. And his example of tragic person is Lady Spinel, as she's a sheltered princess absolute desperate for Morgan's attention, which she won't really get no matter how hard she tries, so she's wasting her life and would be more comfortable dead. Beryl's mind frames his murders of tragic people as genuine acts of mercy and love.

The way he's been using Lady Spinel is really interesting imo. He made her attack Woodwose with a super powerful curse that rots the user's soul because he knew this would make her feel super useful to Beryl. He went somewhat out of his way to pair up with her in a proper Master-Servant duel against Fujimaru because he knew that's what she wanted the most. He let her cast Garden of Lost Will on Fujimaru and Arthuria even though that would drain her so much that she'd get paralyzed and her fingers would start falling off because he knew this would make her feel really useful to Morgan. It's really looking like his approach to killing tragic people is keeping them on the illusion of achievement until the very end. He's often seen as annoyed with Lady Spinel and there's no reason to doubt this annoyance is completely sincere, but even then his actions substantiate his claims that genuinely loves tragic people, in his own fucked up way.

Now getting into speculation territory about his future plans, he already said a lot about his love for Mash and his description of Spinel emphasized some points she has in common with Mash, such as getting starry-eyed from hearing about "the outside world" and being an instrument to a dry leader who will never love her, so it's no stretch to see say (pre-part 1) Mash was a tragic person he wanted to kill. He also has an one-off line where he refers to Fujimaru as "the main dish". Taking it into the context of his replication works and his MO handling Baobhan Sith, his endgame is probably to kill and replace Fujimaru, and finish part 2 together with Mash in a way that she dies, either during the final boss or during the epilogue, thinking that Human Order will get back to the original version.

So Beryl is (was?) getting Young Adult Bathory to slowly kill herself?

[Yatsu300]

I read a bit about Vitch but I don't know if it is true

Spoiler:

It sounds like she somehow lost a tail. I don't know though if it is one she wanted to gain or one she already had. I it was one she already has I would think she would want to loose one I think it would be the one that heals her enemys so maybe her future battles will be more difficult.

If this is true how did this happen?

Spoiler:

IIRC, Oberon cut a deal with her: discreetly (not telling Gudao) eliminate the army reinforcements that would’ve backed up Woodswose, and he’d tell her where Albion is. She agreed and Oberon told her Albion’s location. However, Albion was dead and his remains stuck in a swamp. When she tried digging him up, Melusine attacked her, seeing her as desecrating her remains. Apparently, the attack was powerful enough to make Vitch lose a tail.

But yeah, the scene is pretty interesting; Vitch picked up on Oberon being a potential threat and immediately began researching Fairy Britain’s History after the meeting in Gloucester, so she probably has something planned. Not to mention it’s a pretty funny scene in general, and Oberon planned on cutting another deal with her, so there’s definitely something shifty

[asterism42]

inb4 the cut off tail becomes the version of tamamovitch that we can summon

[Comun]

What is the "Garden of Lost Will"? I mean, I assume it's a spell, but what do it entail?

Orb that traps people. The people inside get hallucinations of their close ones trying to convince them to give up ("fairies", "mother", "village chief", and "friend" for Arthuria; da Vinci, Muniel, Holmes, Goredolf, and "doctor" for Fujimaru). If this was a Sakurai chapter, Dantes would have snapped them out of it, but since this is a Nasu chapter, instead Fujimaru talked the hallucinations down from talking them down through about 50 textboxes of pure dialogue without player prompts. And then once Fujimaru is out of the jar, they go back to not being a real character.

[Alfredo845]

Orb that traps people. The people inside get hallucinations of their close ones trying to convince them to give up ("fairies", "mother", "village chief", and "friend" for Arthuria; da Vinci, Muniel, Holmes, Goredolf, and "doctor" for Fujimaru). If this was a Sakurai chapter, Dantes would have snapped them out of it, but since this is a Nasu chapter, instead Fujimaru talked the hallucinations down from talking them down through about 50 textboxes of pure dialogue without player prompts. And then once Fujimaru is out of the jar, they go back to not being a real character.

I find it kind of cute that Guda considers Muniere on the same level as the rest of his friends, and quite curious that Mashu has not appeared in that sequence.

[R.Lock]

Because Matt wouldn't really oppose Ritsuka, I suppose.

[asterism42]

Orb that traps people. The people inside get hallucinations of their close ones trying to convince them to give up ("fairies", "mother", "village chief", and "friend" for Arthuria; da Vinci, Muniel, Holmes, Goredolf, and "doctor" for Fujimaru). If this was a Sakurai chapter, Dantes would have snapped them out of it, but since this is a Nasu chapter, instead Fujimaru talked the hallucinations down from talking them down through about 50 textboxes of pure dialogue without player prompts. And then once Fujimaru is out of the jar, they go back to not being a real character.

i see

[A Lore Theorist]

I don't dislike it. I don't know how I feel about it. I'm not surprised though, I also theorized it a while ago.

The word you are looking for is indifference which I share.

Hasn't it been hinted/implied that it's the mystery/true ruler of mystery britain? Morgan's whole claim to the throne is that she has this and Artoria doesn't. Vortigern also had it. Saber Alter has the Vortigern and Morgan stuff- so she gets it? I know it's kinda loose but that's always how I saw it.

As note that Vortigern wasn't the only one to have this, but Uther Pendragon had this trait and was thought to be the last in line of that bloodline trait.(Which if Morgan is a case of duality of fae and earthbound spirit that would explain why she had a strong affinity to it, cause Vivian is essentially a primeval being which would mean. It could be that when Morgan was "born" she took in the traits of the land which prior she was pure due to the Lake having purifying qualities or something that kept her pure, and when she was born she drew in the trait from the land which had been created by Cernunnos. )

It's also interesting that Sefar apparently left the ocean intact despite destroying all land. Was her only directive to destroy civilization and not life? Did she think the ocean wasn't worth bothering with?

When they say ocean I feel they are likely referring to Primordial Sea or more likely the ocean surrounding the island, is the Abyss the deepest and oldest body of "water" reserved for only the dead or the like which would not be that unbelievable that Sefar wouldn't be able to wipe out that.

And Artoria is like humanity's "Fuck that" to both.

Not quite, cause remember that Uther Pendragon and Merlin collaborated on this venture which lead to the birth of Morgan first, it could be seen as both being products of the planet's response to the dabblings of the two to create a true king.

The king chosen to be the King of Britain was bestowed with a mysterious power, a black primeval cursed energy native to Britain, but its power had waned and Uther was said to be the last of its keepers, which is why he came up with his plan to sire Artoria, a manmade child of a human and a dragon. As the incarnation of the red dragon, Artoria was created to oppose the incarnation of the white dragon, Vortigern.

With his advisor Merlin, they brought about the circumstances for his heir's birth, granting them the "Factor of the Dragon." Although unexpected, Morgan was born with supernatural blood that was thought to have died with King Uther. She also inherited from King Uther the primeval curse that lurks in the British Isles in the form of blackened magical energy of the same kind of Excalibur Morgan's."

The Red Dragon could be likened to a second forced summoning of the dragon trait which channeled the power of Red Dragon instead of the Primeval Mana derived White Dragon.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Which you could liken the Red Dragon to be the embodiment of the light over the land, the sun, light of hope, whatever which would be the major difference from the White Dragon that is Vortigern in that he lacks the ability to "bring light to the land" essentially that Artoria basically did do, yes it was a momentary, fleeting light, but it basically gave Britain the "embers that would give others the ability to create their own light, their own future." as sappy as this phrase it, it lit "the light of the future/hope" for the area.

Oberon and Zepia have some connection, but what it is, is unknown. They might be the same person or an Alter Ego, since the silhouette for the remaining Servant is almost certainly Zepia.

Okay now that LOOOOONG amount of my 2 cents is done
Onto the primary reason I came over here

I'm calling it now, Oberon is Night of Wallachia instead of Zepia, given the fact that his class is completely random would indicate a type of instability or insanity tied very closely to his spirit origin being in a state of constant flux, like he has done a grand job covering up said insanity for some type of goal in mind, which idk might turn out to be what it is, or it's Zepia who is a little column A, column B together(Perhaps sort of similar to what happened with FGO Kiara Sessyoin where she was linked up to her CCC self), it could that his goal was his "Titania" being basically Sion, given that even when he lost his sanity and became Night of Wallachia, he still harbored some amount of hope from Sion.

[Oz1337]

Is there any particular reason you believe Oberon is Zepia/Night of Wallachia except for the leak (which btw was fake in most regards, and I have a written list of all that was wrong about the leak)? Because so far I still haven't found any reason in the story to believe he's Zepia.

[Alfredo845]

Is there any particular reason you believe Oberon is Zepia/Night of Wallachia except for the leak (which btw was fake in most regards, and I have a written list of all that was wrong about the leak)? Because so far I still haven't found any reason in the story to believe he's Zepia.

The fact that Zepia took for some reason the name Oberon for himself (something that is very important in the wizarding world) and that the silhouette that remains is extremely similar to that of Zepia.

[A Lore Theorist]

The fact that Zepia took for some reason the name Oberon for himself (something that is very important in the wizarding world) and that the silhouette that remains is extremely similar to that of Zepia.

Mainly the former aspect in that with a bit of latter aspect here, mainly that in the lore Zepia has taken up the name of Oberon for an amount of time. Which was what came up in El Melloi Case Files

Spoiler:

[Oz1337]

First of all, it's a shadow silhouette, so "looking like" means nothing to me, it may as well turn into a woman when they reveal who is in the future (and we've all seen how little we can trust the silhoutte separation in the past). Second, even if it tooks the name of Oberon to himself at one time, that doesn't mean that the one in the story and that we will get is going to be Zepia, it can be the real Oberon or an Oberon inspired by stories even if he claims to be from PHH, because so far we still don't know enough about Oberon.

[Alfredo845]

First of all, it's a shadow silhouette, so "looking like" means nothing to me, it may as well turn into a woman when they reveal who is in the future (and we've all seen how little we can trust the silhoutte separation in the past). Second, even if it tooks the name of Oberon to himself at one time, that doesn't mean that the one in the story and that we will get is going to be Zepia, it can be the real Oberon or an Oberon inspired by stories even if he claims to be from PHH, because so far we still don't know enough about Oberon.

Well, we are close to the anniversary date and unless they release a completely new Servant that has nothing to do with what was previously presented, which is certainly possible, is the best guess we can make (plus the shadow we can see is practically a carbon copy of his design like Wallachian night)

[A Lore Theorist]

First of all, it's a shadow silhouette, so "looking like" means nothing to me, it may as well turn into a woman when they reveal who is in the future (and we've all seen how little we can trust the silhoutte separation in the past). Second, even if it tooks the name of Oberon to himself at one time, that doesn't mean that the one in the story and that we will get is going to be Zepia, it can be the real Oberon or an Oberon inspired by stories even if he claims to be from PHH, because so far we still don't know enough about Oberon.

Hey now, what you are doing is taking issue with the calling of situation of a certain possibility, you are free to disagree with me, cause again, it's my hunch I'm going with and have explained my logic. And can you explain why if there is little mystery to be had, why his class is random, which I theorize likely is a case of instability tied to the very fabric of his spirit origin, perhaps something kind of like Nursery Rhyme, which is technically the type of existence, Night Wallachia is, a collection of stories, fears, rumors, etc, given life/form. Which means he can easily assume the form of character that closely resembles them theoretically. Oberon says he is from proper history, but Oberon has the same "origins" as Titania, which is an existence that shouldn't be normally possible, unless, it's being used as a "mask" to better blend into this fae world which is something that Zepia/NoW could do in theory.

Has no one here realized or questioned the fact, that Oberon is also an existence that shouldn't exist, even in normal PHH, Nursery Rhyme was a special case, but has been one of very few cases of said type, along with Maxwell Demon. It is nigh impossible for a story to garner enough of a presence to be able to become a servant. They are not normally strong enough to basically "solidify" an existence by their own power alone, and last I checked, we haven't seen much if any sign of Good ol Shakesmaestro or any type of Author servants in this circumstance. This potentially points more of an inward case of a persona this servant has taken up that has a strong connection with him already, the fact that his noble phantasm also references another story involve Oberon, suggests that that this individual is using the stories that are connected to the persona/character known as Oberon.

[asterism42]

Oberon is a character who already existed in folklore prior to A Midsummer Night's Dream - the play also uses actual mythological figures Theseus and Hippolyta. In the original French poems he's the son of Julius Caesar and Morgan le Fay.

Titania was literally made up by Shakespeare as a character who could be Oberon's wife.

[Lobo]

Oberon says he is from proper history, but Oberon has the same "origins" as Titania

Oberon doesn't have the same origin as Titania. She's a fairy completely made up by Shakespeare for his play (as explained in the story), while Oberon already had existed in folklore for centuries from the Huon of Bordeaux cycle to his ties to the character Alberich from the Nibelungenlied. His genealogy is a mess but now that we know Morgan has most likely lived as a fairy for centuries before incarnating as Igraine's daughter, is not impossible anymore

If anything, between his tiny Robin Goodfellow form, his speed, his NP name or how he likes to make fun of Artoria roast her, I wouldn't be surprise if he's actually Puck (Robin Goodfellow) pretending to be Oberon

[Oz1337]

I can't say anything because we really don't know enough to actually make a theory about Oberon, and he's been quite suspicious in the story so everything that he may have mentioned could have been false, like him being from PHH. The most I could say about him is that, based on a passive that has been datamined that increase debuff chance of anything except Foreigners, he may as well be a Foreigner because his passive doesn't work on fellow class members. That, or Alter Ego due to class advantage, though I'm sure there's a better reason than this if it ends up being this.

Look, if the Zepia-Oberon leak ends up being right then that's great, good for you, but what I've seen many times with leaks, is that when they end up being revealed as fake, people get angry because the leak didn't end up being true and start saying how shit the real thing is because it's not as cool or good as what they have ended up imagining it. Some of your theories feel like you're trying to stretch things to make it fit that leak, which will backfire later if they end up being false (and if you're right, they may not even be the reasons to suspect he's Zepia).

[A Lore Theorist]

Oberon doesn't have the same origin as Titania. She's a fairy completely made up by Shakespeare for his play (as explained in the story), while Oberon already had existed in folklore for centuries from the Huon of Bordeaux cycle to his ties to the character Alberich from the Nibelungenlied. His genealogy is a mess but now that we know Morgan has most likely lived as a fairy for centuries before incarnating as Igraine's daughter, is not impossible anymore

If anything, between his tiny Robin Goodfellow form, his speed, his NP name or how he likes to make fun of Artoria roast her, I wouldn't be surprise if he's actually Puck (Robin Goodfellow) pretending to be Oberon

That's indeed a possibility, and will fully admit that was something that fell through the cracks a little in my cram session on Oberon. You are correct that he does have prior connections, however there are still points that don't line up with his "story" as he states it, if he truly existed or not. That's the bit I'm unsure on, given the shadiness that he have exhibited, but I am fully willing to admit that I had the case wrong if it turns out to not be the case.

I can't say anything because we really don't know enough to actually make a theory about Oberon, and he's been quite suspicious in the story so everything that he may have mentioned could have been false, like him being from PHH. The most I could say about him is that, based on a passive that has been datamined that increase debuff chance of anything except Foreigners, he may as well be a Foreigner because his passive doesn't work on fellow class members. That, or Alter Ego due to class advantage, though I'm sure there's a better reason than this if it ends up being this.

Look, if the Zepia-Oberon leak ends up being right then that's great, good for you, but what I've seen many times with leaks, is that when they end up being revealed as fake, people get angry because the leak didn't end up being true and start saying how shit the real thing is because it's not as cool or good as what they have ended up imagining it. Some of your theories feel like you're trying to stretch things to make it fit that leak, which will backfire later if they end up being false (and if you're right, they may not even be the reasons to suspect he's Zepia).

I'm fully aware of the possibility that I could be wrong, and am fine to admit it with zero ill will if it comes out that it wasn't as I had pieced together. What's the point of trying to solve a mystery, if there isn't that possibility that you might be wrong with your deductions? And Additionally the leaks are secondary case for me, in more so the case that it's a fun coincidence, but not the primary focal point for my theory.

[fumei]

So is Habertot Tattertot- the third member of the original trio of Tolernico/Morgan and Mash? Or is it just implied right now?

Totorot was an original follower of Tonelico. When Mashu is sent back and starts talking about Habetrot, it affects Totorot in all kinds of ways. She prefers the name Habetrot way more, and she becomes more interested in her dream of sewing dresses, and of course she becomes attached to Mashu in the sense that she's her "bride". She then petrifies herself in a cave somewhere to avoid disappearing when the Queen's Calendar rolls around, and then goes to help Mashu and Gudao etc. It's another stable time loop, more or less.

Any information on Barghest's ball conversation? Something about the fairies repopulating PHH?

Not sure if this is what you're referring to, but it's a plot point that while those born in a Lostbelt cannot leave it/live in PHH, since this is no longer a lostbelt but a singularity/a "reality" on par with PHH, it means those born here now can emigrate to PHH. Basically, as long as they can get past the light wall, they can survive the inevitable fall of this alternate wall. When we strike the deal for Barghest to side with us in Camelot, her condition is that we do all we can to get at least some people out when the time comes (tho da vinci mentions that we can only carry like 500 people in the border).

So did Beryl's PHH Morgan Servant sacrifice her life to rayshift her memories to Tonelico/her past self?

Also, Mash was sent back in time to become one of Tonelico's companions?

Reishifting is converting the subject to information (pseudo-spiritrons) and then sending it elsewhere (into an anomaly, usually). However, you can't reishift into the past of a lostbelt, because it's not timetravel, so if you do it, you'll be destroyed. However, Morgan can do it to transfer her current memories and knowledge to the past her, but since that requires her to reishift back, the "current" her will be destroyed. In Chaldea's very controlled environment of reishifting this complete conversion also seems to be mitigated to an extent, going by lostroom mats. But yeah, the Morgan Beryl sees after he wakes up is Tonelico/LB Morgan, and PHH servant Morgan is already dead. That's also why Beryl thinks that the him that is there now has to be a "copy" because Tonelico would've had to recreate him after she changed history.

And I wouldn't say Mashu is necessarily sent back specifically to become a companion of Tonelico. The past is just where Morgan's Water Mirror sends stuff. Originally she was sending the calamities back to like retroactively give herself even more power and stuff so that she could eventually destroy the planet and all that. On the other hand, her sending Mashu back might be part of a stable loop since Mashu was always the "First Knight" so who knows.

[R.Lock]

If Beryl's assumption is correct, then Morgan would have had access to his Siriuslight and all the info behind it, wouldn't she?