Part 04
You may now sear into your eyes; the beginning of the real madness.
Part 04
You may now sear into your eyes; the beginning of the real madness.
You partially answered the questions yourself. Yes, timelines playing so drastically differently from what human history wants to proceed, are pruned. Like that is literally the entire purpose of it. And the Lostbelts are those pruned timelines being brought back.Originally Posted by Dartz
But just because you play a bit differently from the general thing the locks dictate, it doesn't mean you are instantly pruned. The Moon Cell existing, the changes caused by CM and the TAs in Tsuki worlds, Prototype, Prillya, Requiem...etc, while resulting in huge differences between these worlds compare to the others, still did not reach the point of either "making humanity advance far too much" or "completely fucked over humanity in the next 100 years", so they are not pruned. The system is flexible enough to allow differences in the multiverse, but not every differences, as the solar system does not have enough energy to sustain infinite number of timelines.
Hmm, I see, makes sense. I wonder if part of CMs plan was also to avoid triggering that pruning system, but still allow things to continue in a way that benefits him. Many villains in the series seem to try and find ways to get around those locks it seems, like Archimedes.
Though there seems to also be scenarios where it cannot activate. Luminary Arc for example (said to be a world bad-end). Pretty sure that results in Human Order being eaten. Might also be a result of it not being strong enough.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
To me, the simplest argument for the Incineration affecting the whole time tree is just to think about what Goetia is actually doing.
He wants to return to the beginning of the planet, so in that sense he wishes to travel from point A (the present) to point B (the beginning of the planet and presumably the timeline itself) in a "straight" line.
But even if he does, the world won't let him do any actual changes because of the safeguards (QTLs), so he has to remove the QTLs as well. Doing so—"lifting the pins" on the texture, as it were—results in the timeline (or the "fabric") unravelling because nothing's holding it in place anymore. This allows him to make the changes he wants to (burn it all up for his steam-powered engine) but it also has a side-effect which needs to stretch beyond the single timeline.
Up to this point we've simply viewed what's happening from within one timeline, but if we reverse the perspective, and look at the whole multiverse as a bunch of timelines going from bottom to top (like a tree, obviously), and we follow Goetia's path from the top of his line towards the bottom, we would have to see that every time he passes a QTL, every other timeline is "unraveled" in the exact same way as his "home timeline". This as a result of the QTL being a lock across the trunk, not the timeline itself (as explained in Extella). Or, to visualize, if the timelines are threads, then QTLs are not pins in individual threads, they're clamps across all the threads at once, keeping them all together. That's why you have the whole thing where if you stray too far from the "main trunk", you get pruned regardless of whether it's stagnated, because you're not being "held on" by the clamp.
So, effectively, what Goetia would be doing when he destroys a QTL "in his timeline" is that he would just stand on one edge of the trunk and throw the clamp off. Hence, Goetia's actions affect all adjacent timelines, not just the FGO one.
The reason why it wouldn't affect other "trunks" (the works that are so diverged they're effectively their own multiverses, like Prillya and Prototype), would then be because they're held on by their own clamps, so Goetia lifting one from one bunch of threads wouldn't magically cause another clamp elsewhere to fly off as well.
I guess looking at it like this, there can be an argument made that Goetia "only" removes the QTLs in the other timelines then (which would still massively fuck shit up since now all of a sudden you're able to freely change the past, which if nothing else, would likely immediately get you pruned once the singularities are fixed), but imo that feels contrived since you'd have to say that he has these sources of energy and not using them.
Anyway, that's how I look at it.
Man, you guys will be happy when I explain how this works in the next chapter.
The system only activates around every 100 years to "compile" history and prune the useless timelines. So if something happens in your world that ruins it b4 the lock arrives, then you effectively pruned yourself anyways, it doesn't just suddenly trigger and drop the pruning hammer on your instantly right there, you effectively have at least a 100 years of grace period before and after a time lock decided your fate. Like how the actions of Morgan managed to reverse the status of LB6, making it no longer a pruned event, or a LB.
One bad end of Tsuki world A also doesn't matter to the many other Tsuki world...So for example let's say LumiArc was not stopped and she caused bad end in Tsuki world A. Depends on when the previous lock happened, the next time the trimming procedure is activated it will be like okay lemme see if humanity in this world can continue oh damn oh man nevermind they are already destroyed 10 years ago well shit there you go to the trash bin lmao now I move on to the next timelines.
Doesn't LB6 take place in the Inner Sea and humanity is already dead there? Why are time-locks still a thing in that world?
The set of multiple timelines humans experience is within the tree of time, right? Built on top of the physical universe. The collective laws that govern everything that occurs within the tree is the Human Order, the texture of the AoM. If that texture is eaten then it means the end of everything, including adjacent timelines since they are part of the texture. I can't see how it would work any other way.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
LB6 takes place inside of a former Lostbelt. Lostbelts have no Human Order Cornerstones because they're simulations. At least, until Morgan made that simulation into reality. At that point, the rules of causality apply.
So it was pretty much going to die due to the Human Order outside the (former) lost belt placing the lock on it? Makes sense.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
One of the great mysteries of life, on par with "why does anyone still expect Oberon to pay back any of his debts?"
No. The governing of the timelines is a universal function, performed by "the world". It is there to prevent human history from making the solar system collapse with its inflation of so many timelines, and allow the system to continue for at least 100 million more years. Archetype Earth manifesting as the Will of the World talked about this during her conversation with Sion in MB BAAN manga. She said that the world is at the mercy of the flexible Spiritrons (the quantum time locks are also known as the Spiritron Record Anchor Band), and it doesn't abide by the Human Order (which makes sense since it governs Human Order). All you can do about it is constantly changing. She also implied that as the will of the world she can access this system to fix the world (makes sense as "the world" itself performs the pruning automatically) but it can have consequences and thus she doesn't just go and do it randomly. Beasts seemingly able to also gain access to this system to tamper with history and parallel worlds, as shown by pretty much all Beasts so far. And I guess Zelretch too, since it looks like he can cause pruning with his interference in a world. This is why making use of it can cause the collapse of the Human Order, as it is an admin tool.
Timelines are (currently) governed by Alaya, if that's what you meant.
Yeah that's what I thought. Alaya = AoM texture/physics = Human Order, which manages pruning was always how I understood this. But Lily is saying there is an higher order thing that manages pruning which makes things confusing. According to your quote pruning is not a universal phenomenon, just something done by the AoM texture.Timelines are (currently) governed by Alaya, if that's what you meant.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
I understood that Alaya was doing the pruning because the solar system imploding means humanity dies so it's simple counter force reaction for survival. "If I eat all my food now I'll die within a week so I ration them and live 100 million years".
The thing is the entirety of the AoM texture on top of the physical universe is what's referred to as the solar system in this context, wherever Voyager reached since it's based on human observation. But they are not expending the literal resources of the solar system. The other planets including Earth have their own rules and resources unrelated to Human Order and anything pertaining to pruning and the like.
That's how I understood these concepts. The solar system-sized texture is unrelated to the laws of the stars, was how I always understood this.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
It never made sense to me how the will of Man decides which timelines get pruned and which don't when pruning affects the entire universe, most of which is outside of Man's domain. And we even have evidence that Man's texture doesn't actually cover the entire solar system- one of ORT's gimmicks is that he overwrites the texture of the Earth with that of Mercury's.
The pruning phenomenon being governed by something greater, but seeing mankind's survival as the one which results in the greatest number of possibilities for the solar system, makes a lot more sense to me. But because I recognize there might not be sufficient evidence for that I'm pretty interested in seeing Lily's proof.
Was that ever suggested?
I don't see how you could prune entire timelines WITHOUT affecting the entire... timeline. Unless only the Earth is affected by the prunin phenomenon, but that introduces even more weirdness.
Earth, a human planet, only being affected by a human phenomenon?
What a shocker.
My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
The humankind timeline to be more specific.
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