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Thread: Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #75681
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrikow View Post
    You have to sort of understand this in the scenario it's presented and the world it is a part off.


    Ultimately, this is what Nasu's thoughts surrounding humanity's progress is about. It's about reaching the end of the universe. If, like the Atlas Institute, you want to delay the end for as long as possible, you'd rather reject this kind of 'consumption' that Aoko's Magic represents, because it advances progress.



    I do find it interesting how much the physical laws of thermodynamics seem to be rooted in his thinking. Seeing the world as a system of potential change instead of something 'that just is' is very much in line with this. That said, the Magics are clearly more about human progress than anything else.
    Wait, if that's the case, shouldn't some of the pruned worlds are better fit to preserve universe's existence? If evolving means shortening the lifespan, then timelines where humanity stagnates should guarantee its continued lifespan, like Chinese Lostbelt for example. Why would that be pruned?


  2. #75682
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory View Post
    Wait, if that's the case, shouldn't some of the pruned worlds are better fit to preserve universe's existence? If evolving means shortening the lifespan, then timelines where humanity stagnates should guarantee its continued lifespan, like Chinese Lostbelt for example. Why would that be pruned?
    What kind of universe needs to preserve energy?

    Besides, what the pruning does isn't about preserving the lifespan of the universe, it's about finding possibilities with the most promise. Remember, even ideal worlds, perhaps ones that could live on in perpetuity, get pruned if the possibility they contain is limited to one. That is 'requirement' of pruning. What it ultimately does, is try to find thing with the most possibilities. As the EXTRA mats puts it: "the world keeps expanding for the sake of a future which nobody can know, and not even higher-dimensional lifeforms can predict."
    Last edited by Petrikow; December 1st, 2022 at 09:10 PM.

  3. #75683
    祖 Ancestor Kirishima's Avatar
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    And here I thought I was on crack for thinking the Fifth Magic was closely related to entropy, consumption of heat and denying the Carnot Cycle, I guess not.

    Elaborating a bit, to me the description of Aoko being perfect for the Fifth because she's good for nothing except pumping out heat bullets, and Goetia using energy (heat) to time travel, made me think they were messing with Thermodynamics. Specially when Aoko undid Soujuurou's death and sent it "far to the future", if you were to reverse the entropy of a broken cup, you would put it back together perfectly, effectively retracing time, but to reverse entropy in a system you need to give an equal or bigger number to the universe at large (sending it to the future).

    All this was because my professor in thermodynamics made a comment about time travel violating 2nd law and all I could think of "oh is that what Aoko is doing?"

    Also, if all Magics are related to Thermodynamics, the Third can easily be seen as making a perpetual motion machine.
    Last edited by Kirishima; December 1st, 2022 at 11:11 PM.

  4. #75684
    群星の探検家 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    While "attestation" doesn't at all inherently imply an "invention", but just a "proof" (just like how if you attested that santa claus exists now, that doesn't necessarily mean he magically started existing at the same time, just that you couldn't prove it was really him before that), a big reason of those mats that make this take difficult to reconcile is the fact that Zelretch via the second magic's attestation of parallel worlds saved the world from a slow end. If they always existed, just not in the purview of mankind (such as in the AU) then there wouldn't be that end. That only works if you consider that it's supposed to perhaps mean the "end of mankind" but that's not what was said. It talks about history failing, but also about the "world" and the planet itself.

    To me, it also lines up well with a certain twitter crack on how the true magics relate to concept of entropy (or heat quantity, rather).
    Quote Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory View Post
    Isn' the heat thing from Mahoyo? Something about Aoko's action caused universe's heat being transferred to the future could cause unbalance for its indefinite growth, and making a heat death scenario possible. So before that, the universe was safe from that dead end?

    So Zelretch's Magic caused the singular timeline to start branching out, with the first divide became the origin of Fate and Tsuki routes with Zelretch vs CM as the starting point, and the branches kept multiplying from then on? If so, that's really fascinating.

    I'm guessing the world wasn't aware of that potential and so resigned to its fate, but Zelretch's feat proved otherwise thus the world began to utilize the parallel timelines to prolong its lifespan.
    The world/universe in these contexts are meant to refer to the human world, and the planet.


    So yes Zelretch helped prolong the existence of Earth by finding out parallel worlds - alternate possibilities of mankind. He also used it to gather magic energy to stop CM's moon drop, which ended up seemingly became a QTL as well. But all this is still limited to just the OU. The concerns about all this future stuffs only is an issue in the OU because of the fluctuation that the future can have due to the actions of someone standing in the "present", hence why there has to be the QTL to lock the past from being changed as well as reducing the future possibilities. None of that matters in the AU where you can be at ALL points in time at once, since time in the AU isn't in the shape of a tree, but a flat sheet of paper where you print the whole forest. The past, present and the future can literally be merged into one in the AU. That is how BB can be at both the beginning of CCC while she already reached her end goal in the future at the same time.

    If it is about the actual vast universe beyond Earth and human's observable universe, you would see an image of a bunch of galaxies not just the Earth in that page, and no
    world
    universe
    furigana shenanigans involved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory View Post
    Wait, if that's the case, shouldn't some of the pruned worlds are better fit to preserve universe's existence? If evolving means shortening the lifespan, then timelines where humanity stagnates should guarantee its continued lifespan, like Chinese Lostbelt for example. Why would that be pruned?
    Like I said earlier, the system has a meta reason to exist, that reason is root in Nasu as a writer, like there is a talk about it in the film making FGO event. Stories that have very little paths to go are not good. A story (timeline) where humanity achieved immortality have little room to write anything interesting about for the writer. A story where humanity and everything died out also has little room to write interesting things about. However timelines where there are so many things that is unclear, indecisive and can go so many different ways, is a writer's gold mine.

    The whole system exist to justify Nasu dropping story ideas and not revisiting finished storylines for the 10th sequel.
    Last edited by Lily Emilio; December 2nd, 2022 at 01:12 AM.

  5. #75685

  6. #75686
    死徒(下級)Lesser Dead Apostle Delastogos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    The world/universe in these contexts are meant to refer to the human world, and the planet.


    So yes Zelretch helped prolong the existence of Earth by finding out parallel worlds - alternate possibilities of mankind. He also used it to gather magic energy to stop CM's moon drop, which ended up seemingly became a QTL as well. But all this is still limited to just the OU. The concerns about all this future stuffs only is an issue in the OU because of the fluctuation that the future can have due to the actions of someone standing in the "present", hence why there has to be the QTL to lock the past from being changed as well as reducing the future possibilities. None of that matters in the AU where you can be at ALL points in time at once, since time in the AU isn't in the shape of a tree, but a flat sheet of paper where you print the whole forest. The past, present and the future can literally be merged into one in the AU. That is how BB can be at both the beginning of CCC while she already reached her end goal in the future at the same time.

    If it is about the actual vast universe beyond Earth and human's observable universe, you would see an image of a bunch of galaxies not just the Earth in that page, and no
    world
    universe
    furigana shenanigans involved.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Like I said earlier, the system has a meta reason to exist, that reason is root in Nasu as a writer, like there is a talk about it in the film making FGO event. Stories that have very little paths to go are not good. A story (timeline) where humanity achieved immortality have little room to write anything interesting about for the writer. A story where humanity and everything died out also has little room to write interesting things about. However timelines where there are so many things that is unclear, indecisive and can go so many different ways, is a writer's gold mine.

    The whole system exist to justify Nasu dropping story ideas and not revisiting finished storylines for the 10th sequel.
    I guess the whole energy consumption part of it is also an extension of this philosphy.

  7. #75687
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    My exciting serialized mystery novel now has another chapter!

    By which I mean, more theorycrafting, of course. I actually had to cut this chapter in half, because it had reached an incredible length. As a result, the other half of this chapter is mostly written already. Hopefully I can get it out soon.

  8. #75688
    Lie Like Vortigern Reign's Avatar
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    Moonlight/Kinoroom

    I've entertained Lev being the Chaldean instead of Goetia before, but my only hangup with it is his talk with Morgan, praising her 2000 year plan as someone who once stood in the same place as her. I know Flauros is a part of Goetia but that's still something I'd associate with 'proper' Goetia before any of the individual demon gods.

  9. #75689
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle
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    I assume it's Goetia heavily favoring Lev/Flauros as a base in his attempt to understand the viewpoint from which Solomon saw the world by taking on Roman's form. Being just Lev doesn't make a ton of sense because he never really got much 1:1 interaction with Ritsuka, and being just Goetia doesn't make a ton of sense because the connection to Olga is obviously going to play into the endgame.

  10. #75690
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    This is entirely some side-trivia, but there's this part of the First Order anime, which was when they had decided to make Part 2, but hadn't finalized all the details (the Crypters are nowhere to be found), where Olga does the Animusphere chant: Stars, Cosmos, Gods, Animus, Hollow, Void, Anima Animusphere. As you can see, they eventually decided to change "Hollow" and "Void" to "Antrum" and "Unbirth". So if you wonder why I translated the chant in the way I did, now you know. It's just a funny little easter egg.

  11. #75691
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    Melty Lev when.

  12. #75692
    Just beat your enemy TomPen94's Avatar
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    When the mysteries are revealed.

    So never.

    Sorry.

    watch my video

  13. #75693
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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  14. #75694
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    Good read and especially the reasoning for the establishment of the temporary intersection and Olga's status. I'll be disappointed if Lev is left at the wayside.
    Can always hand wave everything via Neco Arc dimensional bullshit since Nasu did say she was the strongest once.
    Uhhhhhhhh, should be a new MB announcement soon. Maybe at NEC2022? More Neco-Arc shenanigans incoming. Hopefully Nasu starts steering us towards Sion and crew too.

  15. #75695
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanaya View Post
    Can always hand wave everything via Neco Arc dimensional bullshit since Nasu did say she was the strongest once.
    Well, I didn't just wanna say "Neco-Arc, lol", so there was a lot more legwork to be done.
    Believe it or not, this dumb meme character has actual lore. That's just how Nasu rolls; he can't resist inserting lore into even to most pointless garbage.

  16. #75696
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    I'm not saying she doesn't. Just that she's used for that purpose where inexplicable things can be expected. Her character is clearly connected to those kinds of dimensional anomalies. Even some of her oldest lore was something connecting to Zelretch.

  17. #75697
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    She truly is the avatar of the multiverse...

  18. #75698
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Dartz's Avatar
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    I haven't really managed to keep up with the latest FGO content but I really like this MBBAAN explanation, compilation and breakdown. Good stuff!
    The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
    For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
    Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.

    Tsukihime 2 Prelude III

  19. #75699
    Something I noticed when looking into Lev's backstory in Clocktower 2015 is that it seems that in FGO, is that both Romani and Marisbilly seem to share a lot of his backstory elements with Lev Uvall, the personality that decides to kill himself


    Specifically Lev's appent connection/friendship with Touko, is basically mirrored by Romani and Da Vinci, where

    And Romani's whole otaku joke is mirror by Lev being teased by other for being a 'indoor chairman' focusing only on his magecraft theory and work

    And Marisbilly is presented as having a strong passion for humanity, but also being as pragmatic as a magus would be, and his also emphasized to only care about his work



    Something to think about it I guess

  20. #75700

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