Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I mean it's only mind-numbing to you, cause it's only natural that the Beasts have been stated PLAINLY and repeatedly that they are chain summoned in order from first to last officially and not expecting it to go by what has been officially stated to be the case of it(which would have not been the case IF the lostbelts hadn't happened), and none of the these make reference to the beasts, more so that they are threats to humanity, which are not always beasts. So if we are going to face Vitch as a proper Beast, we HAVE to face Primate Murder that has reached Beasthood in order from IV>V in order for Vitch to obtain the Crown of the Beast that case, which can ONLY be obtained taken from a beast that has reached maturity, it's the only thing that makes any narrative sense. Cause yeah an immature beast that is Vitch is really going to be able to handle a full on Beast IV by herself(Although I COULD see her lending her aid to face it if our interests align, only darker and less honest like with Muramasa).

So Solomon>Tiamat>Kiara/Kama>Primate Murder>Vitch likely>Beast666/Manaka possibly or that Manaka is one half and the other taken a different route>and finally Beast VII(Which was mentioned to not have been fully made manifested in Olympus, so can be considered still not fully matured.)

I get that it's in your username, but you need to stop with the theory tunnel vision and chill out. With the evidence we got, and what has happened in LB6, everyone's theories are varying levels of speculation, and new evidence could confirm or deny anything. So long as you keep that in mind, we're cool.

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Maybe that dragon was digging in the wrong spot in that timeline?

Probably. That, and the spot may have been different all along in Fairy Britain.

[A Lore Theorist]

I get that it's in your username, but you need to stop with the theory tunnel vision and chill out. With the evidence we got, and what has happened in LB6, everyone's theories are varying levels of speculation, and new evidence could confirm or deny anything. So long as you keep that in mind, we're cool.

I'll admit that I'm being passionate about my theory/conjecture/conclusion based on all the evidence/clues/hints we have so far so I will chill out with it a tad now that I have likely laid my cards on the table on it, and would be otherwise continuing to beat a dead horse conversation. Again I tend to get really enthralled when I get excited/interested in a topic, which with Nasuverse, can happen a little often. Eheheheh...

[Lelo]

Just don't dismiss other people's theories like if you're the one who had the "right one", and go crazy if your predictions turn out to be wrong.
Nothing more than that.

[fumei]

So if we are going to face Vitch as a proper Beast, we HAVE to face Primate Murder that has reached Beasthood in order from IV>V in order for Vitch to obtain the Crown of the Beast that case, which can ONLY be obtained taken from a beast that has reached maturity, it's the only thing that makes any narrative sense.

So Solomon>Tiamat>Kiara/Kama>Primate Murder>Vitch likely>Beast666/Manaka possibly or that Manaka is one half and the other taken a different route>and finally Beast VII(Which was mentioned to not have been fully made manifested in Olympus, so can be considered still not fully matured.)

First of all, Kominsky isn't hunting other Beasts to reach maturity herself. She's hunting phantasmal species to grow her tails in a way for her to overcome her original legend, and that will in turn make her a proper Beast. The only thing she has to do (most likely) is make sure nobody takes the position of Beast V before her. Sure, two beasts can't really reign at the same time obviously, but there's nothing that says she has to kill another beast to become a beast herself of unrelated sin. Secondly, saying we HAVE to deal with IV before V is just not true. They may be chain summoned in that order (except not fully, since V isn't taken still), but literally the first one we beat was II, then I, then III.

[A Lore Theorist]

Just don't dismiss other people's theories like if you're the one who had the "right one", and go crazy if your predictions turn out to be wrong.
Nothing more than that.

I will be a bit saddened if my prediction ends up not happening, I will admit I had it wrong if/when that comes to pass. And sorry if I came across as dismissive of others' theories, not my intent. Most likely could have worded it better to get that point across in a less rude reading manner

First of all, Kominsky isn't hunting other Beasts to reach maturity herself. She's hunting phantasmal species to grow her tails in a way for her to overcome her original legend, and that will in turn make her a proper Beast. The only thing she has to do (most likely) is make sure nobody takes the position of Beast V before her. Sure, two beasts can't really reign at the same time obviously, but there's nothing that says she has to kill another beast to become a beast herself of unrelated sin. Secondly, saying we HAVE to deal with IV before V is just not true. They may be chain summoned in that order (except not fully, since V isn't taken still), but literally the first one we beat was II, then I, then III.

Yes, but it's mentioned she is searching for a beast's crown to steal and make her own(something like that in her words)? That's the bit I'm not as clear on specifically. Basically think of a beast's crown as akin to possibly a catalyst like a grail for beasts. On paper she would only need to show up near the end of another beast to take the crown to help facilitate her ascension. It's sort of like taking the magical energy of a beast's crown which are their horns and converting it for your uses, Vitch is a known pilferer of things to make her own that catch her eye. Obviously there is more than grafting them to you, but we will have to wait and see on how/if she steals it from a defeated Primate Murder possibly what she does with it.

And yeah that's why I edited the post but missed that part, cause that was a mistake, what I realized and meant ultimately is that the way the Beasts tend to mature rate seems to run in a pattern with Goeitia the first of the Beasts that had fully matured/fully formed(Who didn't initially perceive us a threat to his plan), then came Tiamat, then Kiara, etc.

[Bunhelier]

Speaking of Koyanskaya, i got confused with the whole syncretism. First she is Amaterasu then Dakini and primordial Buddha Vairocana, that being said a Buddha isnt something evil that would threathen the great trichiliocosm.

Vairocana's root of syncretism is coming from an Asura king, the father of Mahabali, that being said Amaterasu said she was a great demon that could threathen the great trichiliocosm, does this mean the Asura King Vairocana was also part of the syncretism considering he is the root of Buddha Vairocana?

Oh, Vairocana also appeared in Mahabarata as a solar deity.

[asterism42]

Yeah ploy-kickshaws were dropped at the end of LB2 in relation to the wandering sea. Also, MHXX's Valentines mentions four threats actually.

• A sea connected to another world
• A shaft still connected to the inner sea of the planet
• An altar that shows a vision of a swelling sun
• The Great Three high grade relics, the Moon, the Mist and the Bridge

Maybe we'll finally get to learn what the Bandersnatch actually does

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Is there a list of ploy-kickshaws and what they actually do anywhere?

[fumei]

Maybe we'll finally get to learn what the Bandersnatch actually does

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Is there a list of ploy-kickshaws and what they actually do anywhere?

https://typemoon.wiki.cre.jp/wiki/%E...83.A3.E3.83.BC

[AleisterSwole]

Speaking of Koyanskaya, i got confused with the whole syncretism. First she is Amaterasu then Dakini and primordial Buddha Vairocana, that being said a Buddha isnt something evil that would threathen the great trichiliocosm.

Vairocana's root of syncretism is coming from an Asura king, the father of Mahabali, that being said Amaterasu said she was a great demon that could threathen the great trichiliocosm, does this mean the Asura King Vairocana was also part of the syncretism considering he is the root of Buddha Vairocana?

Oh, Vairocana also appeared in Mahabarata as a solar deity.

We don't really know much about Vairocana in relation to Tamamo and by extension Koyanskaya. In contrast we know more about Amaterasu since she appeared in Tamamo's 3rd Secret Garden in CCC.

In that Secret Garden she says that she exists as "humanity's evil", implying that's she's a Beast candidate. She also says that as a god she equally harvests both good and evil from humans, nurturing them in times of peace and driving them to slaughter in times of war, so she can cause evil if need be. Tamamo is also described in her Extra and FGO profiles as being able to be manifest as an evil spirit, so there's that too.

In the case of Koyanskaya, she wants to become a Beast, so an Evil of Humanity, which fits what Amaterasu could do. You also have to remember that Koyanskaya's goal is to become a new nine tailed fox different from the original, she's trying to move away from her legends/origin and become something new so this could allow her to circumvent a bunch of rules.

[Bunhelier]

We don't really know much about Vairocana in relation to Tamamo and by extension Koyanskaya. In contrast we know more about Amaterasu since she appeared in Tamamo's 3rd Secret Garden in CCC.

In that Secret Garden she says that she exists as "humanity's evil", implying that's she's a Beast candidate. She also says that as a god she equally harvests both good and evil from humans, nurturing them in times of peace and driving them to slaughter in times of war, so she can cause evil if need be. Tamamo is also described in her Extra and FGO profiles as being able to be manifest as an evil spirit, so there's that too.

In the case of Koyanskaya, she wants to become a Beast, so an Evil of Humanity, which fits what Amaterasu could do. You also have to remember that Koyanskaya's goal is to become a new nine tailed fox different from the original, she's trying to move away from her legends/origin and become something new so this could allow her to circumvent a bunch of rules.

I thought that with the whole syncretism she was equated with Daji from China, Dakini from India, and Tamamo from Japan since all of those is a harlot nine tailed fox that ruined a country.

There's Buddha Vairocana too since she is equated with Dainichi Nyorai in Shingo Buddhism and Nezha's line pretty much confirm that. If she was also equated with Asura king Vairocana who could threathen three worlds in Hindu mythology (Tamamo said her Nine-talied form could threathen the great trichiliocosm too), i just find it amazing the amount of BS that Nasu pull just to wank Amaterasu.

[AleisterSwole]

I thought that with the whole syncretism she was equated with Daji from China, Dakini from India, and Tamamo from Japan since all of those is a harlot nine tailed fox that ruined a country.

That's how it goes (so far): Tamamo is a bunrei of Amaterasu (y tho), Amaterasu is syncretized with Vairocana/Dainichi because of Shingon Buddhism and the Dakini is also thrown in the mix because of the Tachikawa-ryu sect of Shingon Buddhism (what Kiara's cult follows). Here's a quote from the EXTRA mats:

Through the combination of these three kinds of thoughts and methods the Tachikawa Sect considered the unification of “Dakini = Dainichi Buddha [Vairocana] = Amaterasu Oomikami” to be the ultimate goal.

Tamamo is also related to the Dakini with her Witchcraft skill which is actually Dakini rites and also because Tamamo says she's not a fox but a yakan/jackal like the Dakini goddesses (although she also says she's not really a jackal either...).
As for Tamamo's connection to Daji (and the other fox ladies that destroyed nations), it has yet to be fully explained. It's most likely related to versions of her story (like Hokusai's) which claim that they're all the same nine tailed fox.

And finally we have Koyanskaya/Tamamo Vitch, an Alter Ego/bunrei of Tamamo like the other Tamamo Nine, born during the events of Tamamo's CCC ending. So thanks to that she shares the same convoluted syncretic origin as Tamamo.

i just find it amazing the amount of BS that Nasu pull just to wank Amaterasu

In the case of Amaterasu, her being syncretized with Vairocana is normal in Shingon Buddhism, my main problem is Nasu associating Tamamo with her for some reason, even though nine tailed foxes are already depicted as god-like beings with incredible powers, not to mention she's also one of the 3 Great Yokai of Japan so she's good enough on her own without Amaterasu/Vairocana.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Ploy Kickshaw was also namedropped by Da Vinci at the end of LB2, when we got to see the Wandering Sea & met Sion for the first time. I think she said something about fairy in the same line as well but can't remember the exact quote.

It's this one.

I'm not familiar with Mahoyo's story, so I'm wondering how Novum Chaldea's base potentially counts as a Threat to Humanity. And how they'll fight it.

[Yatsu300]

Out of curiosity, is Koyanchihuahua’s goal even possible?

From what I could gather, she’s basically been collecting and absorbing monsters from the Lostbelts to create a new legend/identity for herself as a Beast. However, isn’t that kinda similar to what Arjuna was doing in the Indian Lostbelt?

Replace ‘monsters’ with ‘Gods’ (and a LOT of them, he got them all except for Kama and the ones he gave the Lokapala), and ‘spite’ with ‘worship’ (to the point where Karna and Rama weren’t getting a fame boost) and things line up fairly easily. However, as Karna pointed out, no matter how many Gods or worship Arjuna accumulated, he could never change his base. Doesn’t that mean Tsunyakupon’s plot is going to fail as well?

Also, while there is a link of syncreticism, isn’t it kinda being stretched? It feels inconsistent that a relatively small (proportions wise) sect of Buddhism’s syncreticism can be taken as absolute truth, but several other syncretic links are kinda ignored. It’d be like if Nasu was making a story involving, say, Christianity, and Jesus shows up in Utah because that’s what the Mormons believe (no offense to Mormons, just pointing out that they’re a small percentage of Christians in the world).

[Rafflesiac]

"Yikes."
"Very yikes, Master."

Good interlude. So why'd everyone go loco, what did Ko-Gil's potion do?

[Comun]

Whose Interlude?

[Rafflesiac]

Saber Astolfo's.

[AleisterSwole]

Out of curiosity, is Koyanchihuahua’s goal even possible?

From what I could gather, she’s basically been collecting and absorbing monsters from the Lostbelts to create a new legend/identity for herself as a Beast. However, isn’t that kinda similar to what Arjuna was doing in the Indian Lostbelt?

Replace ‘monsters’ with ‘Gods’ (and a LOT of them, he got them all except for Kama and the ones he gave the Lokapala), and ‘spite’ with ‘worship’ (to the point where Karna and Rama weren’t getting a fame boost) and things line up fairly easily. However, as Karna pointed out, no matter how many Gods or worship Arjuna accumulated, he could never change his base. Doesn’t that mean Tsunyakupon’s plot is going to fail as well?

Also, while there is a link of syncreticism, isn’t it kinda being stretched? It feels inconsistent that a relatively small (proportions wise) sect of Buddhism’s syncreticism can be taken as absolute truth, but several other syncretic links are kinda ignored. It’d be like if Nasu was making a story involving, say, Christianity, and Jesus shows up in Utah because that’s what the Mormons believe (no offense to Mormons, just pointing out that they’re a small percentage of Christians in the world).

Koyanskaya is probably fine. According to what she said in Olympus she has no True Name, which means that her efforts to create herself a new identity are going well. She also grew many tails, and she's enough of a threat that the Counter Force sent a Grand after her.

Also, while there is a link of syncreticism, isn’t it kinda being stretched? It feels inconsistent that a relatively small (proportions wise) sect of Buddhism’s syncreticism can be taken as absolute truth, but several other syncretic links are kinda ignored.

I mean, it's Nasu we're talking about. While this sect of Shingon Buddhism is very obscure, he practically wrote an entire essay about it in the EXTRA mats. Also I brought up that sect because it happened to mention and equate all parties at once (Amaterasu, Vairocana and Dakini), but even without that Tamamo's connection to these entities still stands based on what we know of her (bunrei of Amaterasu, jackal and Dakini witchcraft).

[Lobo]

Out of curiosity, is Koyanchihuahua’s goal even possible?

From what I could gather, she’s basically been collecting and absorbing monsters from the Lostbelts to create a new legend/identity for herself as a Beast. However, isn’t that kinda similar to what Arjuna was doing in the Indian Lostbelt?

Replace ‘monsters’ with ‘Gods’ (and a LOT of them, he got them all except for Kama and the ones he gave the Lokapala), and ‘spite’ with ‘worship’ (to the point where Karna and Rama weren’t getting a fame boost) and things line up fairly easily. However, as Karna pointed out, no matter how many Gods or worship Arjuna accumulated, he could never change his base. Doesn’t that mean Tsunyakupon’s plot is going to fail as well?

This is just my interpretation so:
Tamamo has said that if she grows more of her tails she'll revert back to the original (Amaterasu/Nine Tails Fox), that's why she tries to avoid this and even cuts her extra tails creating the Tamamo Nine on her CCC ending, to stay as Tamamo
However, since Koya is trying to become a different Beast than the original, she's not growing more tails but rather making them out of this specific bigshot monsters she has found in each lostbelt. This could maybe let her become a new Nine Tails Fox rather than reverse to being the original Nine Tails Fox, she will stay as Koya and as Koya ascend to be the new Beast Nine Tails Fox
Sure, there is a similarity in how Arjuna absorbed the Hindu pantheon to get a power boost, but Koya doesn't need such a thing as worship so she doesn't have the same weakness that he had
Whether her goal is possible, so far it has been working. Orion got summoned in Atlantis to stop her, so she's working in the right direction if with only five tails she got a Grand summoned. Will her plan fail? Of course, all Beasts plans will fail, that's the whole point of the narrative, the Beasts are there to be surpassed. How will her plan fail? Who knows at this point, if Nasu keeps writing her, she most probably will have a conceptual weakness to be exploited in the future, maybe absorbing all those monsters will make her have their weaknesses too? Just an idea

[alienncoww]

It's this one.I'm not familiar with Mahoyo's story, so I'm wondering how Novum Chaldea's base potentially counts as a Threat to Humanity. And how they'll fight it.

Thanks! And regarding the threats mentioned by MHXX, she only brought up the Great Three ploys (basically the three oldest and most powerful ploys, one of them was destroyed by Aoko though), not Ploy Kickshaw in general though

[asterism42]

It's possible the Flat Snark is not destroyed in FGO world