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Thread: Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #73841
    不明 fumei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunhelier View Post
    Forgive me for bringing this again but the thing that makes me pissed is the fact that Nasu discredit and demeaning the other Mythology to make his own sounds impressive.

    I mean its not Amaterasu have big influence in the world that she got syncretized but it was the other way around, but somehow Amaterasu is the one who takes all the credit, the other example is Daji.

    Daji is much older with big enough influence to spread to other region but somehow it was all Japanese who take the credits of her influence. Like it was all Amaterasu doing that caused the ruin of a nation in China and India i mean cmon Nasu, i know you want to makes Japanese Myth to be impressive but not like this. This why i called superioriy complex and shameless.
    I think this is entirely a perspective thing, to be perfectly honest. Never have I, or any of my friends who read FGO, or really most people I talk to who read the story, read about the syncretism and gone "wow india's really getting shafted here, huh?" Partly because, again, I think some of you focus too much on the whole powerlevel aspect of syncretism rather than it existing out of necessity for worldbuilding and coherence, so all you see is that the Japanese god now also has the powers of the Indian god. And partly because at the end of the day, syncretism goes both ways. If Amaterasu is Daji, then Daji is Amaterasu. It just so happens that some get more focus in Nasu's stories (hence why it may seem like Amaterasu is "taking all the credit" because she gets to "appear" more), but this too is a matter of necessity, like HumanComplex said. Amaterasu has very direct reasons to show up in CCC, and with those reasons established it makes sense already for her to "appear" (as it were) in something like Tunguska. I would not say that it's made (at least intentionally) to discredit or demean the other party within the syncretism, it's just simpler and more appropriate, to an extent, for the already established party to be the one to take center stage.

    At the end of the day, he doesn't need to use syncretism to "wank" japanese myth, so the idea that he does so in some sort of delusions of inferiority or megalomaniac superiority complex spree feels rather ingenious to me. It's very much exactly like how they don't need to genderbend historically male people to "balance the genders". They do that because that's what they want to do, and at the end of the day, it's all fiction and they're writing a story and making the game they want to make. They're not pushing propaganda here.
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    Ugh cokesakto no no no
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    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
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    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.

  2. #73842
    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    What’s the point of the name Konjiki Hakumen in your logic?
    I know but don't pretend to not see the lore that screaming Amaterasu is the Original instead of the "Real original" Thousand years fox spirit.

  3. #73843
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One asterism42's Avatar
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    Oh, the other reason I'm expecting nothing from Amaterasu is the wet fart that was the Whore of Babylon. What a nothing character she was.

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    also the reason I dislike Koyanskaya's plot resolution was because it came off as bascly queerbaiting, except with foxgirls instead of gay people

    foxbaiting, if you will
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  4. #73844
    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    snip.
    Well, i just dislike how they present the other Myth with syncretism like that so i guess its personal thing, but tbh i prefer they're not presented in the story' than being did dirty like that, i mean which one you prefer? The real Attila or the OC Altera? Or what if they make Genghis Khan = Yoshitsune a thing in here?
    Last edited by Bunhelier; May 22nd, 2022 at 07:25 PM.

  5. #73845
    祖 Ancestor AAM1232's Avatar
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    Seriously? If you want to worry about the future you can make a thread about it you know. Right now I'm only curious about what Traum will be like.

  6. #73846
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One rxrx's Avatar
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    Back onto all myths are real approach, I still don't get why Nasu decides to go historical facts and fantasy divide in Extella. It just feels like the good old fabrication vs real in which fabrication might not be as bad, but I just find it bullshit. Why pull this if he wants to go for all myths are real?

  7. #73847
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    Because for some reason it’s really important that the magic went away from continental Europe when BC flipped to CE.

  8. #73848
    I liked the simple days when divine spirits didn't show up and barely mattered to anything.

  9. #73849
    後継者 Successor Kirishima's Avatar
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    Don't worry, after FGO is over we will get Tsukihime Red and Mahoyo 2 and 3, no more servants and gods and bad reddit posts about FGO

  10. #73850
    Quote Originally Posted by rxrx View Post
    Back onto all myths are real approach, I still don't get why Nasu decides to go historical facts and fantasy divide in Extella. It just feels like the good old fabrication vs real in which fabrication might not be as bad, but I just find it bullshit. Why pull this if he wants to go for all myths are real?
    The fundamental dysfunction between the mutability of myth and the depiction of objective records that renders it 'historical' fact has existed at the heart of Fate from the start. Do not expect resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirishima View Post
    Don't worry, after FGO is over we will get Tsukihime Red and Mahoyo 2 and 3, no more servants and gods and bad reddit posts about FGO
    Careful with all that projection, Emiya-kun.

  11. #73851
    後継者 Successor Kirishima's Avatar
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    Just like his projections, if I never stop believing they will hold true and permanent.

  12. #73852
    This reminds me of that certain Mongolian basket weaving site schizo poster who complains about Raikou / Ushi Gozen in every thread saying that it's Nasu's moral imperative to make them "appear properly" in FGO because the mushroom once alluded that "there's more to it" in an interview or whatever.

    If anything, I think it's there's point in that TM implying that "there's more to it" about some characters in any given story is a kind of unnecessary sequel baiting unless they're willing to just dump all the info into some Material Book.

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    Personally, I think this was not the case with specifically Tamamo and Nero's "they're secretly an Evil of Mankind pls tanoshimi" story lore arc. Nasu definitely had an "explanatory story" in mind when they imply that there's more to Tamamo and Nero than what appeared in Extra.

  13. #73853
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One rxrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirishima View Post
    Just like his projections, if I never stop believing they will hold true and permanent.
    I have lots of tactless stuff to say but choose not to when it comes to this statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sione View Post
    -
    Personally, I think this was not the case with specifically Tamamo and Nero's "they're secretly an Evil of Mankind pls tanoshimi" story lore arc. Nasu definitely had an "explanatory story" in mind when they imply that there's more to Tamamo and Nero than what appeared in Extra.
    I just want the spotlight to shift to others

  14. #73854
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirishima View Post
    You clearly do not understand basic storytelling and it shows. Amaterasu has a role and it was fulfilled. The point is Tamamo is related to this all powerful, evil (hence the reason why we get to know she is a beast candidate) goddess and wants to shed that part of herself behind and be her own thing, essentially. Thats why Amaterasu exists and why we got to see her in CCC, she was basically saying "I'm the part of Tamamo she is hiding, do you still want to be together with her despite it all?" and any sun divinities related lore or syncretism is to tie her together with the rest of the world. She exists out of necessity and to tie background things together, and to enhance Tamamo's backstory. Once again, you fail to see things behind surface level. There are things related to her not because Nasu wants to do anything with her, but because it was necessary in the kind of story he told for him to talk about her and her attributes.
    I think the "basic storytelling" rule where the writer can just freely allude to and make a reference to anything without having to worry about clarifying or expanding it later can't really be applied to any Fate story these days. It's just a consequence of the marvel multiverse-ication of TM as a whole.

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    Let's be real here, Nero and Tamamo's "hidden lore" not being "properly resolved" is a fatal curse that will haunt any Fate story for decades to come.

  15. #73855
    The only way forward is to keep rebooting Extra until they're finally done justice.

  16. #73856
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One asterism42's Avatar
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    Beast VI's real sin is unsatisfying payoffs
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  17. #73857
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    I'll start to care again once there's more Record news.


  18. #73858
    Some things should remain as world building background lore for material books and that's it.

  19. #73859
    Quote Originally Posted by rxrx View Post
    I just want the spotlight to shift to others
    Yeah, it's silly to say that the very existence of Nero and Tamamo's "unexplained lore" ultimately don't really matter or amount to much when it's been hogging all the spotlights and they both are getting all the dicksucking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanaya View Post
    Some things should remain as world building background lore for material books and that's it.
    Agreed, this is what they should do from the very beginning with Amaterasu or Mother Harlot or whatever. Just throw them into the Material Book trash bin and never look back.
    Last edited by Sione; May 22nd, 2022 at 10:35 PM.

  20. #73860
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One rxrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sione View Post

    Agreed, this is what they should do from the very beginning with Amaterasu or Mother Harlot or whatever.
    Mother Harlot was a disappointment after all the build up. Or maybe I'm too used to SMT's.

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