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Thread: Fate/Grand Order Story and Lore (CONTAINS SPOILERS)

  1. #5521
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    concept of okeanos is pirates.
    leads to error bug cos of records so they keep printing generic pirate 1.
    "If that's too hard to understand, just think of them as ghosts you can punch to death without being magic."

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Siriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Wouldn't him freaking out about how what he was told about the Euryale/Ark thing suggest oblique intent?
    If he intended to destroy the world he wouldn't have freaked out and started ranting in rage when it was revealed that what he was doing would destroy the world instead of doing what he actually thought it would.
    Ragnarok, come day of wrath
    That fallen souls might bear our plea.
    To hasten the Divine's return.
    O piteous Wanderer.

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    Fuckin' chicken grill!!! Kotonoha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Wouldn't him freaking out about how what he was told about the Euryale/Ark thing suggest oblique intent?
    Intent to destroy the world? Because he definitely didn't foresee or want that.

    As Lev discovered it's kinda hard to find people who want to destroy humanity.
    Last edited by Kotonoha; November 9th, 2015 at 10:57 PM.

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    Foolish Dreamer Rue's Avatar
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    Some things I've gathered
    Spoiler:

    Someone told Jason bringing a goddess (Euryale) & a holy artifact (The Ark) together would make him super strong w/o telling him all that touches the Ark gets unlived (as seen with what happened to Herc, it was a good plan to take him down while the Archers provide covering fire).

    So making Euryale touch it would lead to dire worldwide consequences it seems.

    Orion asking Mashu for a kiss during the farewells was cockblocked by his waifu. MC got a kiss from Euryale & was even called Master by her for a while.

    The whole asking David if his son's really doing all this & him not really that affected & even questioning if those are even actual demons.

    Mostly accurate?

    And now for something random...

  5. #5525
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    If he intended to destroy the world he wouldn't have freaked out and started ranting in rage when it was revealed that what he was doing would destroy the world instead of doing what he actually thought it would.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm getting from the following snippet is that if you understand what your actions will do after the fact then you had oblique intent.

    Oblique intent: a person has oblique intent when the event is a natural consequence of a voluntary act and they foresee it as such. The 'natural consequence' definition was replaced in R v Woollin with the 'virtually certain' test. A person is now held to intend a consequence (obliquely) when that consequence is a virtually certain consequence of their action, and they knew it to be a virtually certain consequence. The first leg of this test has been condemned as unnecessary:[2] a person should be held as intending a consequence if (s)he believed it to be a virtually certain consequence, regardless of whether it was in fact virtually certain.
    This has two applications:

    1. When a person is planning to achieve a given consequence, there may be several intermediate steps that have to be taken before the full result as desired is achieved. It is not open to the accused to pick and choose which of these steps are or are not intended. The accused is taken to intend to accomplish all outcomes necessaoverall plan. For example, if A wishes to claim on B's life insurance policy, and so shoots at B who is sitting in a bus, the bullet may have to pass through a window. Thus, even though A may not have desired B's death, it was an inevitable precondition to a claim. Similarly, he may never consciously have considered the damage to the window, but both the murder and the damage under the Criminal Damage Act 1971 are intended. This is distinguishing between the direct intent, which is the main aim of the plan—and the oblique intent, which covers all intermediate steps. More generally, someone directly intends a consequence when their purpose or aim is to cause it, even though they believe the likelihood of success is remote. In R v Dadson, for example, the defendant shot at a man he wrongly believed was out of range. In R v Mohan,[3] the court held that direct intent means, "aim or purpose"—"a decision to bring about, insofar as it lies within the accused's power, the commission of the offence..no matter whether the accused desired that consequence of his act or not."
    2. Sometimes, by accident, a plan miscarries and the accused achieves one or more unintended consequence. In this situation, the accused is taken to have intended all of the additional consequences that flow naturally from the original plan. This is tested as matters of causation and concurrence, i.e. whether the given consequences were reasonably foreseeable, there is no novus actus interveniens and the relevant mens rea elements were formed before all of the actus reus components were completed.
    Edit: Wiki link as bad as it is
    Last edited by Trubo; November 9th, 2015 at 11:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  6. #5526
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Siriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm getting from the following snippet is that if you understand what your actions will do after the fact then you had oblique intent.
    It is literally the opposite.

    Oblique intent: a person has oblique intent when the event is a natural consequence of a voluntary act and they foresee it as such. The 'natural consequence' definition was replaced in R v Woollin with the 'virtually certain' test. A person is now held to intend a consequence (obliquely) when that consequence is a virtually certain consequence of their action, and they knew it to be a virtually certain consequence. The first leg of this test has been condemned as unnecessary:[2] a person should be held as intending a consequence if (s)he believed it to be a virtually certain consequence, regardless of whether it was in fact virtually certain.
    You only intend a consequence if you think it'll happen as a result of your actions.

    Also I have no idea why you bring legal jargon into this when we're talking about common definitions.
    Last edited by Siriel; November 9th, 2015 at 11:03 PM.
    Ragnarok, come day of wrath
    That fallen souls might bear our plea.
    To hasten the Divine's return.
    O piteous Wanderer.

  7. #5527
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Everyone starts calling you Master during the Herc attack.
    Because you are Mastering them
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  8. #5528
    Fuckin' chicken grill!!! Kotonoha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm getting from the following snippet is that if you understand what your actions will do after the fact then you had oblique intent.



    Edit: Wiki link as bad as it is
    He did not understand what his actions would do after the fact. He thought his actions would do something completely different than what they actually would have done.

  9. #5529
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm getting from the following snippet is that if you understand what your actions will do after the fact then you had oblique intent.



    Edit: Wiki link as bad as it is
    Why are you bringing criminal law into this we're talking about normal people words mate.

  10. #5530
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  11. #5531
    ジュカイン Lycodrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotonoha View Post
    It just seems weird to me to argue about whether Jason is good or bad when the end of the story had everyone standing around going "wow he was a dick but he was good-intentioned... I guess sometimes good people do bad things and vice versa... that's what it means to be human......"
    See this actually makes sense. Thanks, Koto.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    Yes, excellent. Go, Lyco, my proxy.
    F/GO SUPPORT

  12. #5532
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    It is literally the opposite.



    You only intend a consequence if you think it'll happen as a result of your actions.
    Thanks for the clarification. Since we're going through that one comment of mine, would Jason still be considered a good guy for wanting to kill an uncooperative Euryale just from the consideration that he thought killing Euryale would lead to a greater good?

    Also I have no idea why you bring legal jargon into this when we're talking about common definitions.
    Cause apparently I'm terrible with common definitions, so may as well use the ones that will matter in the worst case in real life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  13. #5533
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Siriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. Since we're going through that one comment of mine, would Jason still be considered a good guy for wanting to kill an uncooperative Euryale just from the consideration that he thought killing Euryale would lead to a greater good?
    If you start to argue about the morality of killing Servants then everyone in Fate is evil.
    Ragnarok, come day of wrath
    That fallen souls might bear our plea.
    To hasten the Divine's return.
    O piteous Wanderer.

  14. #5534
    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    If you start to argue about the morality of killing Servants then everyone in Fate is evil.
    Sure, why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. Since we're going through that one comment of mine, would Jason still be considered a good guy for wanting to kill an uncooperative Euryale just from the consideration that he thought killing Euryale would lead to a greater good?
    Is Romulus a good guy for killing his brother so ROMA can be ROMA?
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  16. #5536
    Beats By Matthew ft. Dr. Para Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by @Leo-chan View Post
    Sure, why not?
    Because Gilgamesh is Chaotic Good.
    Supports:


    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  17. #5537
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    If you start to argue about the morality of killing Servants then everyone in Fate is evil.
    Self-defense?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  18. #5538
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Is Romulus a good guy for killing his brother so ROMA can be ROMA?
    Better question, was Remus Roma?

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    Fuckin' chicken grill!!! Kotonoha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Better question, was Remus Roma?
    REMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Self-defense?
    Grail wars are fought in self-defense?????

  20. #5540
    Plānge printre ramuri luna, Noptile-s pustii Crown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.
    You, are you okay?

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