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Thread: What TM stuff are you reading/watching/consuming?

  1. #1421
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    Case Files is a deeply frustrating read.

    I had already tried to get into the series before but gave up after going through half of the first book due to Grey's unbearable narration. The frequency and intensity with which she bellitled herself was so absurd that it ended up being comical, and did little to engage me with her personal conflicts while ruining the mood that the story was trying to set up.
    Regardless, I just got a new kindle and had nothing to read on my commutes, so I decided to try Case Files again.

    I've gone through three volumes and I have to talk about how infuriating the structure and writing are. It feels like the author's intentions, the focus of the book and my expectations as a reader are all pointed at wildly different directions, making for a read that doesn't manage to satisfy me for a single chapter. Mainly, the problems come from the trifecta of jumbled priorities, the sherlockian presentation and the failed character focus.

    Priorities: If this little review was a chapter of casefiles, I'd follow up the use of the word trifecta above by conecting it to the Christian holy trinity, the triumvirate of the old Roman empire and the unshakeable structure of the isosceles triangle. Meaningless, surface-level connections that do nothing but increase word count.

    It feels as if Sanda learned about the idea of magecraft coming from these cultural foundations engraved upon the land without ever actually reading type-moon stories featuring those mages, and mistakenly decided that it is those foundations that should be at the forefront. Case Files wants to be a story and a material book at the same time. Every moment is an opportunity to add exposition that, half of the time, isn't even about the nasuverse setting itself, but about a random assortment of real world history, math and phylosophy. Surprisingly, these expositions are often not even relevant to the story itself.
    The Iselma duology spends a lot of time talking about different astronomical concepts and how they might relate to the magecraft of that house, but at the end what is really essential for you to understand the mystery is a Cinderella spell. Amid all that, Sanda cannot hold himself back and has to add other meaningless conections to concepts that are completely irrelevant to the narrative at hand even during the climaxes of the books.

    It reminds me of first reading Fate/Stay Night, when Nasu decided to spread out the explanation of the Holy Grail War throughout the prologue, a strategy that was mostly successful, except for the part in which he inserted the most extensive and important section of the exposition right in the middle of the first major action scene in the visual novel, completely ruining the tension he had built up to that point.

    In Case Files, the entire book is like that scene. Any moment that might be of interest to the reader is interrupted by exposition with no regard to pacing or atmosphere, as Sanda struggles to manage writing a setting glossary, a trivia book, a character study and a murder mystery, all at the time. His priorities are completely mixed up and every decision on how to structure these stories baffles me, which goes right into my second point.

    The Sherlockian Presentation: Case Files pretends to be a mystery novel and fails miserably. Shockingly, the author is aware of its failure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vol. 3
    "I never said it was deduction. Just speculation. At any rate, there's no logic to follow."
    That, in and of itself, is fine. A book series that presents classic mystery novel tropes while admiting they don't work in a setting with magic is a fine idea that could work... if the book wasn't obsessed with emulating a mystery novel anyway. In both the first and second arc, the protagonists are taken to a new location to limit suspects and additional factors, the suspects are then presented, some additional information is laid out and the murder occurs. We then follow a tense investigation with the culprits still at large and attempting to impede the protagonists, all the while the motives of each suspect are revealed.

    The problem is that following this structure sets up expectations. As the reader, I'm trying to solve the mystery alongside the characters and start taking in all of the exposition as relevant information only to find out it is all irrelevant in the end (sometimes explicitly: in the first case they actually tell you the literal charts on angel lore and astrology included in the book do not matter).

    Now, I'm not saying NOTHING that is said is involved in the case. Some of it is, but as the book itself said on that quote, we are not meant to deduce it. We can't.

    And even still: that should be fine. Shelock Holmes itself has most of its mysteries be unsolvable without massive leaps until Holmes himself details everything for us. The difference here is that when Holmes delineates all the facts of the story and reaches his conclusion, we can follow right along with him. We might not be able to experience solving the mystery during the story, but we get to experience it during his elucidation due to the logical throughline that the author draws between all the clues that were presented before. These moments make even Holme's introspective musings, which are frustantingly obtuse when they happen, contribute to the eureka feeling when you finally understand what he was talking about.
    Case Files does all of that set-up, including the frustratingly obstuse musings, but uses its premise to render it all meaningless. We can't solve the mystery because we lack crucial setting information AND are not granted enough time with each of the suspects... but then, Waver's elucidation isn't satifying either because the leaps he makes are so absurd due to the books own internal logic.


    There is an unbelievably aggravating moment in the third book that I have to single out.
    In book 2, the pharmacist Maio explains and demonstrates that he has a drug that makes one instantly drunk, and another to instantly sober-up. This was obvious set-up for some clue to the mystery that was about to be introduced. I kept it at the back of my mind, ready to remember it whenever it was made relevant again.
    However, when we reach the elucidation, it turns out the only relevance of that scene is to show that the pharmacist can create medicine at all. The actual medicine that is relevant to this story (a memory erasing one) isn't even mentioned until the reveal. What the fuck?
    The narrative tries to connect the two drugs by bringing up memory loss due to being too intoxicated, but it's such an unfair leap for both Waver and the reader to make.
    Touko was the one who ingested the drug, why was there no scene showing the reader she was a bit inebriated at the start of the party, alternatively, why didn't Waver notice something off with her that is not shown to the readers (this is what Conan Doyle would've done!!).
    Not to mention the memory loss it caused is also not a factor in the mystery at all until it is mentioned for the first time in the elucidation scene.
    So, Sanda set up a clue that leads to a different clue that is only given during the eluciation to solve a question that was never asked until Waver made a massive logic leap during the final scene of the book.

    Waver then takes an absurd turn to explain Cinderella spells and the extremely thin connection made between the fairty tale and Siegfried's legend, which once again left me agast at the absurdly poor planning that went into this. Volumes two and three spent so much time talking about astrology and how it related to the magecraft of the Sisters, yet it neglected to mention anything on fairy tales or the Nibelungenlied. Come one! It wasn't hard to do, it would've fit right in with the other random connections, and would have given them purpose: to obscure the fact that some are actually relevant!
    Not to mention there is already a connection drawn between substituting the Sun for Venus, which translated into substituting one of the Sisters for the Maids. That part was briefly touched upon before, and the twin swap was easy enough to predict given the premise, but why was astrology not the main point of the elucidation (beyond the aesthetic of the scene)? It was an okay set up. Why introduce fucking Cinderella into it now without ever calling anything related to it into attention before? Huh? To get me more frustrated?
    Oh, I know why:

    Quote Originally Posted by Vol. 3
    "[...] there's no meaning in the whodunnit or howdunnit, the only thing you could rely on is finding the whydunnit.
    Sure, but there's a problem even there.

    Character Focus: The idea that only the whydunnit can be deduced (sorry, speculated) is a fine premise. It could give the author freedom to use magecraft that is unfamiliar to the reader while still giving them a thread to follow... so where the hell is the thread?

    Waver needs to find the whydunnit, yet we spend so little time with each of the characters. It's absurd. The entirety of the second arc's murder happens due to two pairs of twins, their father and one of their two childhood friends. How much insight we get into the relationships between all those parties? Almost none.

    a) Father is abusing twins
    b) twins, twin maids and the two boys are childhood friends
    c) Maio loved the murdered twin
    d) Islo is actually a caring person

    In any character-focused mystery like this one, you would expect us to spend a lot of time with those characters. Maybe give us a glimpse of each of the living twins personalities so we can notice something off in the scenes they're switched, maybe give us time with Maio while he grieves, maybe make Islo a bit suspiscious to throw the reader off but still introduce the idea of one of the boys as the murderer in our heads, maybe make us grapple with the possibility of Islo being the culprit contrasted with the brief moment of humanity he displayed, maybe introduce literally anything in the crime scenes that might connect to the magecraft of these friends... Anything. Literally anything.

    The book itself introduces the idea that this is a mystery that can only be solved by understanding the personal connections and intentions of the characters involved, but then doesn't give us (OR WAVER) anything to work with? Why?

    Once again, I think I know why. It's because while this is a character focused book, it's not interested in any of the supporting cast. These books are character studies into Waver, Grey and Reines. Mainly Waver. The two or three scenes per book that focus on that are fine, even good, so I can't for the life of me understand why Sanda decided to write msytery novels that rely on characterizing everyone else instead.
    This man is clearly passionate about Waver and Type-Moon lore, yet he decided to write a genre that isn't well suited for worldbuilding, while also crippling any quality of the genre itself and stubbornly holding onto his passions anyway. I didn't want to turn my frustation with the books into anger at the author, but I have to say it at least once: What a fucking idiot.
    Last edited by pinetree; March 25th, 2023 at 09:30 PM.

  2. #1422
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    YES

  3. #1423

  4. #1424
    Man, I feel like if I collected all the times I frothed at the mouth in chat about the translation updates I'd match you at every point, that's how similar my experience reading this goddamn thing was. I think it was when the entire cast gathered to hear Waver explain the entirety of the plot by pulling stuff out of his ass that I realised I was reading the same scene from a thousand shitty fanfics that revel in having everyone gawp and react to their protagonist being a 13-year-old's idea of cool. Or a thousand light novels, I imagine.

    But really, leaving aside the trite writing, the complete derivativeness and reliance on claps, the mid-series nosedive into more Fateshit, all that stuff about him copypasting his old light novel onto Case Files, what really boggles the mind is that he relies on his cracked wiki-warrior pal to feed him the tl;dr of the cultural material that goes into the magibabble that people cite as the main attraction. Literally what purpose does Sanda serve then? Probably one entirely replaceable by an AI chatbot. And it's not even CF being shit that makes me seethe, it's the sheer HOPES that rode on this series when it was first announced. Fuck I hope his fingers fall off.

    Anyway, banger post. Also,
    Quote Originally Posted by pinetree View Post
    It feels as if Sanda learned about the idea of magecraft coming from these cultural foundations engraved upon the land without ever actually reading type-moon stories featuring those mages, and mistakenly decided that it is those foundations that should be at the forefront.
    many such cases ecks dee

  5. #1425
    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    Very resonant complaints.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  6. #1426
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    I am seen. Thank god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    what really boggles the mind is that he relies on his cracked wiki-warrior pal to feed him the tl;dr of the cultural material that goes into the magibabble that people cite as the main attraction.
    I cannot imagine how conversations between them goes with how random some of the info is.
    "Hey Miwa I finished the story but Waver only has 20 lines total, can you give me everything related to beauty, Venus, and the number 3?"

  7. #1427
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kirishima's Avatar
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    The fact that I for the life of me could not remember a single thing about the side characters mentioned in your post by name, physical or just personality wise, speaks volumes about why I just find Case Files a nothing series. I mean it when I say I'd rather have nothing ever written about the Clock Tower than Case Files because it turned every mage created by Sanda into a boring nothing guy with boring magecraft and boring worldbuilding. When the setting of Clock Tower is mentioned I just think "oh its those Sanda characters with unremarkable traits, unremarkable powers, unremarkable moments, that are supposed to be a big deal". I said this before but Nasu has done more with Marisbilly by not even showing him and having more than 5 pieces of dialogue than Sanda did for any original boring Lord he spawned that are meant to be top dogs, not to mention his other characters.

  8. #1428
    هههههههههههههههههههه Kamera's Avatar
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    All these Sanda hate warms my heart.
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  9. #1429
    On the Holy Night Reign's Avatar
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    I certainly can't disagree with all that, but it's also not the appeal of the series to me. I'm invested for the personal stories of Waver, Reines, and Gray (especially the latter two), which I suppose just reinforces the point that the mystery series angle isn't what Sanda should have gone with.

    Which to an extent I wonder if Sanda realized himself? Because the mystery novel stuff kind of fades out halfway. Mystery elements and "whydunit" are still there, but the arcs about Gray's backstory and Heartless's plan don't try to ape the classical murder mystery style as much. And then the sequel series drops "Case Files" for "Adventures".
    Last edited by Reign; March 26th, 2023 at 07:50 AM.

  10. #1430
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    I didn't care much about Waver in Zero but his characterization here is very good, in fact I'd say it's the only truly good thing about the book. The constant presence of his inferiority complex, even leading him into a pathetic rant amid his most important scene so far, is great. I was skeptical of a series focused on Waver from the start, but Case Files does make me wish a good one existed, his wish to join the Fifith War being impeded by constant Clock Tower political maneuvering could've been a very compelling story.

    Grey is eye candy because I love her style, but she has little else going for her. Her self-deprecation is just as comically overdone as in the first book. I actually laughed when she revealed she thought Svin, her literal horndog stalker, hated her. No one is this dumb, no matter how many times Sanda has her repeat it.

    Reines is a caricature of a character. She was amusing in the first book but Sanda made the mistake of making her the narrator during the second. No, I can't believe a real character is feeling tingling sparks of pleasure going up her spine because she noticed Grey had some minor display of anxiety (which she is not going to make fun of, because she's sadistic but also so kind and loves grey .) All Reines does is make me thankful we only ever got one scene in Kirei's POV.

    Luvia was actually quite entertaining to read about as well, but I'm incredibly biased there and nothing Sanda could've written would have been worse than Prisma anyway. Svin is a poor attempt at comedy and Flat luckily has Strange Fake (he deserves it).
    Last edited by pinetree; March 26th, 2023 at 08:02 AM.

  11. #1431
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reign View Post
    Which to an extent I wonder if Sanda realized himself? Because the mystery novel stuff kind of fades out halfway. Mystery elements and "whydunit" are still there, but the arcs about Gray's backstory and Heartless's plan don't try to ape the classical murder mystery style as much. And then the sequel series drops "Case Files" for "Adventures".
    Someone who actually read it could comment on it, but the Adventure title is just him dressing it up in Sherlock aesthetic again. 'The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes', y'know.

  12. #1432
    On the Holy Night Reign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinetree View Post
    Someone who actually read it could comment on it, but the Adventure title is just him dressing it up in Sherlock aesthetic again. 'The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes', y'know.
    Well like I said it never completely goes away, but it becomes less "magic Sherlock Holmes" and more just a magic series with a mystery element to it. Though I'm also just going on Comun's summaries (and the latter half of CF) since Adventure's not TLd.

  13. #1433
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinetree View Post
    I didn't care much about Waver in Zero but his characterization here is very good, in fact I'd say it's the only truly good thing about the book. The constant presence of his inferiority complex, even leading him into a pathetic rant amid his most important scene so far, is great. I was skeptical of a series focused on Waver from the start, but Case Files does make me wish a good one existed, his wish to join the Fifith War being impeded by constant Clock Tower political maneuvering could've been a very compelling story.
    Are you sure it was you who wrote this? It strongly feels like this paragraph is actually mine.




    As far as Sanda characters go, the stand out figures are always the single one-off suspect that Sanda decided to care about for the specific arc. Namely Orlocke, Magdalena, and Yukinobu. I'm way more fond of these randos than any of the recurring cast members. Maio on his own is already a major failure of a character in any emotional capacity, but his negative quality stands out more in comparison to any of the other whydunnit reasoning subjects.

    Sano also worked perfectly despite (or rather, because of) his whole character being wrapped up in a half a chapter and only being tangentially related to the arc's plot. I can say without a shred of doubt that these 4 are Sanda's best characters.

    For the recurring cast, Waver and Gray are firmly in "like but far from love" territory. Reines was the character who initially grabbed me but now I'm not sure if Sanda has any plans to develop her. Luvia and Ergo have good moments but are mostly ehhh. Rin is a very welcome addition but we all know Sanda doesn't have the balls to do mold-breaking with her. Flat is even more of "other show's guest character" than Rin. Svin never needs to appear again. Latio, Wuzhiqi, and Ziz have yet to grab me. And Akira existed for half a chapter before being constantly damseled. The only recurring character I feel as much as approaches the levels of compellingness of the better one-offs is Ruolong. Pray hard that Sanda doesn't mess up the landing with him.
    Last edited by Comun; March 26th, 2023 at 11:21 AM.

  14. #1434
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kirishima's Avatar
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    Sanda has inklings of good characters. He just has to, you know, do fucking something with them (which I guess is the whole problem with his series, it's fucking nothing), develop them, give them better moments, something. Waver is done well, I'm pretty fond of Reines and Gray for what they are in a way, but Reines has been the same since the start of the series, Gray's highs aren't that high but she's alright, the classmates do nothing ever. I want to like Svin but he just sticks to his "I'm a dog woof woof I love Gray" thing and nothing happens.

    It's a nothing series with good ideas in the bullet points Sanda was handed but he just ate them and vomited out a fanfic that isn't so far very entertaining but also not dogwater poop garbage. it's just a "that sure exists" thing.

  15. #1435
    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinetree View Post
    Luvia was actually quite entertaining to read about as well, but I'm incredibly biased there and nothing Sanda could've written would have been worse than Prisma anyway.
    Prisma is better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  16. #1436
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    But not Prisma Luvia.

  17. #1437
    هههههههههههههههههههه Kamera's Avatar
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    Luvia is such an odd character. Somehow massively popular and managed to be the Archetype Ojou-sama everywhere, despite being less than a secondary character in any work she features in.
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  18. #1438
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    I think it's because she got a lot of focus during her first appearances for someone so minor, it gives her an extra element of mistique.
    She appears in HF out of nowhere, voiced, and it ends there. The other two character to get that treatment there are Zelretch and Touko! Who's this rich girl Rin got as a rival?
    She then shows up in Hollow Ataraxia with multiple expressions and a CG, but only features in a scene and a half. It's like they were always keeping her just out of reach, teasing us.

  19. #1439
    I've been showing an anime newbie Fate for the first time. Currently just finished Zero, gonna do Unlimited Blade Works next. Also been playing through Babylonia on Grand Order. I've also almost completed the final route in Extella Link.

    I've got Extella so I might play that next, or play Extra as I've finally got a better phone which can run the PSP emulator. Other than that, I'm just looking forward to Strange Fake.

    Also need to watch Solomon, I was waiting for it to release on blu ray in Australia or UK, but it still not out yet. Don't really want to pay for the collectors addition.

  20. #1440
    漆黒の翼 Jet-Black Wings Nyarly Alter's Avatar
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    I finished Fate/Extra for the second time the other day. This time i was more patient and actually paid attention to what Pieceman was saying about conflict and human growth, it's surprisingly quite interesting. That final boss sure dies even faster with Nero who has guts, and i saved more Elixirs this time so the poor dude really didn't stand a chance.
    Now Tamamo is the only one i haven't played with yet, i guess i'll do it around Ordeal Call release time to rerevisit the extraverse lore

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