Fate/Apocrypha Manga

[You]

A little oopsie here in the manga, I think, but Amakusa here is cutting off his right arm, which has Semi's command seals.

As mentioned, Amakusa's CSs appear to actually be on his left arm, at least, according to the LN illustrations and in one scene that I could find in the Anime. I'm not sure if it is officially stated anywhere in text, though. On the other hand, the Manga has continuously showed the CSs on his right arm, which leads to the situation above.

Just something to note.

Right hand

“I’m not the sixteenth, Chiron. The sixteenth is Ruler beside you. Strictly speaking, I am the first Servant.”

“Master of Assassin… What have you done to our Masters!?”

In response to Archer of Red’s enraged question, the youth chuckled and held up one arm, rolling back the sleeve covering it. Everyone gasped as they looked at it.

Engraved on it was all the respective Command Spells for Archer of Red, Lancer of Red, Rider of Red, Berserker of Red, Caster of Red and Assassin of Red—eighteen Command Spells in total.

“I peacefully had them turn over their rights as Masters and each of their three Command Spells. Don’t worry, the prana necessary to keep you all in this world is a trivial amount to supply now that I’m connected to the Greater Grail.”

At Lancer of Red’s question, Shirou nodded and raised his right arm. The countless Command Spells engraved on it shined with a dull light.

“I’m sorry, but I won’t be able to command you all on the front lines. However, that will make it difficult for me to immediately react if Ruler uses her Command Spells. Therefore, I will use two Command Spells on each of you and raise your resistance to any Command Spells from her.”

Both their Master’s Command Spells and Ruler’s Command Spells had equal power of compulsion. Therefore, by limiting the activation conditions and using two Command Spells to do it, Shirou could repulse Ruler’s Command Spells with almost no time loss.

[Rentenzen]

Ahh, I see. When I made my previous post, I did take into account that particular Volume 4 passage about Amakusa's several Command Spells being on his right arm but I just read it in that he "just had a lot of Command Spells on his right arm" but not necessarily Semi's, (I pictured his arms and left hand glowing) though I didn't quite connect that instance with the Volume 3 passage which includes Semi's all in one arm. Additionally, here is another instance from Volume 4 when Amakusa used one on Shakespeare:

Shirou held out one arm towards Caster. His Command Spells were faintly glowing.

Now, it doesn't quite say that the Command Spells were glowing on his arm, per se, but masters do typically raise up the arm with the Command Spells when using one.

So, there seems to be three different depictions that evolved overtime:
1) The LN text "Overseer-style" where its all on his right forearm. (Volume 5 TL may or may not depict it differently.)
2) The LN illustrations "Ruler-style" where he has 15 on his chest and 3 on left hand. (This is superseded by the LN text, though.)
++ The Anime which seems to follow the LN illustrations (from what little reference I gather).
3) The Manga which goes with the direction of the LN illustrations/Anime but on his right hand instead.

Does Amakusa even sacrifice one of his arms in the LN? I sort of question this because, when Apocrypha anime was airing, Higashide made a tweet to explain what Amakusa did to create a black hole, which seems like a detail that should be in the LN. Otherwise, Amakusa is cutting off his right arm with the Command Spells, where he later uses another Spell on Semi to strengthen her chains against Astolfo. Of course, this could just be him just explaning something that wasn't clear in the LN or just an anime addition.

As for Chapter 70, it does follow the Anime, but Sieg doesn't kick Amakusa to a pillar and Amakusa's black keys appear to spin like discs with "Set." Also, no "Amakusa Shirou Tokisada" OST!

[Rafflesiac]

I had to open up the OST when I read the chapter. And then rewatch the fight.

[You]

2) The LN illustrations "Ruler-style" where he has 15 on his chest and 3 on left hand. (This is superseded by the LN text, though.)
++ The Anime which seems to follow the LN illustrations (from what little reference I gather).

Does Amakusa even sacrifice one of his arms in the LN? I sort of question this because, when Apocrypha anime was airing, Higashide made a tweet to explain what Amakusa did to create a black hole, which seems like a detail that should be in the LN. Otherwise, Amakusa is cutting off his right arm with the Command Spells, where he later uses another Spell on Semi to strengthen her chains against Astolfo. Of course, this could just be him just explaning something that wasn't clear in the LN or just an anime addition.

As for Chapter 70, it does follow the Anime, but Sieg doesn't kick Amakusa to a pillar and Amakusa's black keys appear to spin like discs with "Set." Also, no "Amakusa Shirou Tokisada" OST!

The Collarbone CS are the ones he had in HGW 3 as a Ruler that went unused, they're his "Ruler CS'".

Amakusa does sacrifice his right arm in the LN

右腕の機能を転写、全体的な仕様を縮小しつつ左腕で全てを賄えるよう調整する。
大聖杯に満ちた膨大な魔力は、右腕へ。魔術回路が一気に暴走する――溢れ出る苦痛、壊れていく肉体、脳は過 負荷で破裂間際。
抑え込むための力と、調整するための精密性、両方を高度の次元で調整し続ける。もし、魔力で暴走しつつある 右腕を抑えきれなければ、自身の肉体が吹き飛ぶ。もし、魔力量の調整をコンマ単位でも誤れば、脳が吹き飛ぶ 。余裕などない。
生き足掻くのに懸命であろうとして、その足掻きすらも失った。
遅延する時間感覚に身を任せ、シロウはこの右腕の制御に全てを懸ける。神に祈らず、頼らず、縋らず、奇跡を 起こす。
「救国の聖女よ。六十年の執念を甘く見るな。この天草四郎時貞を甘く見るな」
限界まで魔力を注ぎ込まれ、魔術回路は完全に破綻している。しかし、その暴走を一瞬だけ制御し
コマンド
命令を叩き込む――!!
「――『

ライトハンド・ビッグクランチ

右腕・零次集束』

」
それはまさしく黒天体に等しい。ありったけの魔力を叩き込まれ、暴走しつつあったシロウの右腕は、爆発では なく強烈な集束を以てその魔力を消費する。
それはまさに、天地創造と宇宙崩壊が激突した瞬間だった。
命令を叩き込んだコンマ一秒後に、シロウは右腕を切断した。全てを消滅させる聖女の焔が、全てを収縮する暗 黒天体に呑み込まれていく。
聖女と己の魔力放出量、その見極めをわずかでも違えれば爆散する。右腕の行方は、既に杳として知れなかった 。全てを昇華させる焔が、全てを呑み込む黒渦に阻まれる。
二つの強烈な力が衝突し、喰らい合う音が空間に響く。
己の右腕を断ち、更には大聖杯の魔力を注ぎ込んだ。勝てぬまでも拮抗するはず――その推測は、あまりに楽観 的だった。

But then is able to somehow use a CS on Semi after

シロウが振り返る。一目で致命傷と分かる傷を受けた自身のサーヴァント、〝赤〟のアサシンがそこにいた。倒 れ伏しながらも、掲げた右腕によって魔術を行使している。
〝黒〟のライダーとその幻馬を搦め捕った鎖は、ただひたすら頑丈さを追求したもの。ライダーが持つ書物で破 壊しようにも、わずかな時間が必要だ。
「アサシン!!」
反射的に駆け寄ろうとするシロウに、〝赤〟のアサシンが叫んだ。
「たわけ……モタモタせず、我に令呪を使え!!」
シロウは直ちに現状を把握した。致命傷と分かる傷を受けつつも、令呪を行使すればもう少しだけ鎖で縛り付け る時間が延びる。
「――令呪を以て命ずる。我が暗殺者よ、その力で〝黒〟のライダーを縛り付けろ！」

[Hawkeye]

So, like, his Ruler CS are on his collarbones, the ones he took from the Red Masters are on his right forearm and then his personal ones for Semiramis are on his left hand? Is that what we're supposed to infer from all of this? Cause this is a friggin' mess. I mean I guess he can give Semiramis a command with any of them? I don't think there was ever a hard limit implied when it comes to Masters with multiple servants and CS, he could just use the ones on his collar so long as he's still connected to her, right?

[Rentenzen]

The Collarbone CS are the ones he had in HGW 3 as a Ruler that went unused, they're his "Ruler CS'".

Were they really leftover CSs that carried over to the GHGW? I'd imagine he used most (if not all) to nearly win the 3rd HGW.

Before all his Red servant CSs being on his right arm stuff, I had always figured that Amakusa had 12 from the other 6 servants in the 3rd HGW, but he was able to refill his Ruler CSs with the 5 Red servants he took (so 15 CSs). So, Amakusa had a total of 18 CSs in the GHGW.

Amakusa's 6 CSs on the left and 9 CSs on the right (this side gained 3 more Seals) on his chest and Semi's original 3 CSs on his hand, at least in the Anime/Manga.

[You]

Before all his Red servant CSs being on his right arm stuff, I had always figured that Amakusa had 12 from the other 6 servants in the 3rd HGW, but he was able to refill his Ruler CSs with the 5 Red servants he took (so 15 CSs). So, Amakusa had a total of 18 CSs in the GHGW.

I don't think the Ruler CS can be replenished since there are hard coded rules in them, and his profile says he lost the God's Resolution skill, i.e. access to the Ruler CS for the Great Holy Grail War

God's Resolution: As Shirou is not a participant of the Greater Grail War, this skill has been lost

“Can’t you handle it with those Command Spells you have?”

Jeanne shook her head and put an end to that train of thought.

“The Command Spells are in a form that is keyed to each Class. They cannot be matched to one of the wrong color or Class. If it could, I would have done so already.”

“Why on earth would they work that way? They’re Command Spells. Normally, any Master can use any one of them, right?”

Astolfo was correct, and that was exactly why in a normal Holy Grail War, the Command Spells could be safeguarded by the overseer and even granted as compensation when changes in the rules took place.

“What if I, as Ruler, devoted myself to one Servant and granted them Command Spells intentionally? This is for the sake of preventing a worst case scenario.”

“I wish they’d had the foresight to predict something like this happening, too.”

“No one would normally consider anything like our current situation.”

[Rentenzen]

I know that the CSs gained from God's Resolution are special that way, but (putting aside the forearm CSs for now in the LN) the CSs that Amakusa obtained are from the other Red Masters and seemed to fill or take the place of his chest CSs. One of the CSs is used on Shakespeare to not write a tragedy about him in the Anime/Manga. You can see one fade in the Anime.

(Interestingly, I'm just now noticing Amakusa used two, not one, on Semi to strengthen her chains on Astolfo. You can see two fade. Guess the Anime is just weird like that. So, if we include his CS usage to defend against Jeanne's CSs, he technically used a total of 4 CS on Semi in the Anime, but you don't see the 10 other faded CSs.)

I have nothing to support this, but I see his set of CSs on his chest as "slots" that can be refilled, so to speak You know, like how when CSs fade when used but the shape is still there, and Master's can get new ones through transference, therefore refilling a CS slot. So, Command Spells are like FF7's Materia system: there are Materia slots and the Materia themselves as the CSs with all the hard coding. Eh, I'm just rambling here, though.

Anyways, Amakusa should be able to "bypass" all of these issues with his ability to access any kind of magecraft, which Command Spells are a type of magecraft, right? He's got the Overseer knowledge.

All in all, there is just this weird disconnect between what is mentioned in text of the LN and what is visibly displayed in official illustrations (LN/Anime/Manga) concerning Amakusa's several Command Spells, bit it seems that Fate is going with the chest and hand CSs instead of the forearm CS.

Oh, and thanks for the severing right arm confirmation.

[Hawkeye]

I'm actually wondering, if Ruler CS are hardcoded, how did Jeanne refill Sieg's commands? Are his not outside the bounds of that system?

[Rentenzen]

“Yes… it worries me. However, the fact that only one Command Spell remains is a greater concern. I shall transfer two of mine to you as well.”

“Are those the ones for Siegfried?”

“Correct. As I mentioned before, I possess two Command Spells for each Servant. As both the Saber of Black and a Master, you should have no problem receiving them.”

They were for Siegfried.

[Hawkeye]

They were for Siegfried.

Thank you, I only watched the anime, so I'm sadly inept when it comes to the finer details.

[TheSkipRow]

Ch. 71 **************dex.org/chapter/c79e7882-f09e-472b-b4ea-c2ecf196ba75