Create-A-Servant 2

[RoydGolden]

And the point is that they're two different things, because I'm saying individuals and you seem to think humanity as a whole.

Hence why I said "a more positive outlook on the same concept". My point wasn't intended to be exclusive with what you said, it's simply another way of looking at it.

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Basically in line with the quote I gave above: Individual heroes no longer exist in the same sense because feats that were once exclusive to legendary heroes are now accessible to (nearly) all humanity. One way to look at it is that humans have gotten weaker, while the other way to see it is that we've gotten so fucking awesome that destiny-shattering Heroic Spirit defining feats now merit nothing more then a "Yeah, I did that last Tuesday, what about it?".

[Arashi_Leonhart]

How can something be the same concept when I the original say A but you translate it as B?

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Basically in line with the quote I gave above: Individual heroes no longer exist in the same sense because feats that were once exclusive to legendary heroes are now accessible to (nearly) all humanity.

sigh

no, dragon punching is not accessible to all of humanity

[RoydGolden]

How can something be the same concept when I the original say A but you translate it as B?

It's a different perspective. Glass half full versus glass half empty.

sigh

no, dragon punching is not accessible to all of humanity

*sigh* You're looking at this too literally. Humans may not be able to punch dragons, but they can still perform feats just as awesome and world-affecting, if not more so.

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And anyways, if you really insist on dragon-punching as the measurement of import then I'm pretty damned sure a nuclear missile would do just as good a job of punching out said hypothetical draconic beast as a fist ever could.

[zikari8]

But why would you want this

Because we'd rather have a good Shinji than a bad Shinji?

Or so Good Guy Shinji can kill bad guy Shinji and cause a paradox wiping Shinji out from existence entirely? That's a plus.

[forumghost]

Because we'd rather have a good Shinji than a bad Shinji?

But a Shinji that is a worthwhile human being is no Shinji at all.

[4score7years]

But a Shinji that is a worthwhile human being is no Shinji at all.

Not the "is Shinji sub-human" debate again

We should just make a poll tbh

[forumghost]

Nah, he's not sub-human. Merely an unrepentant, raging asshole. (Understandably so, given his upbringing, but nevertheless true).

Except Extra Shinji. He's pretty alright.

[WhatShouldNotBe]

But why would you want this

Why would someone want Shirou to meet the embodiment of the failure of his dream?

why would someone want Shinji to meet the representation of how he has failed as a brother and as a human being?

Do realize that Nasuverse history and myth is not identical to ours and that they probably had fun Pirates of the Caribbean-styled antics rather than run-o-the-mill pirate stuff happen.

But the actual general idea for Heroic Spirits is that they are capable of being special snowflakes and overcome fate. AoG spirits did so by being related to gods and doing crazy shit. AoM spirits did so often with vestiges from the previous age, supernatural techniques, and getting onto a trend with the "first!" comment. But by modern times, you just can't be special snowflake enough or overcome fate because you so weak, so, yeah.

i dunno about that.....

if if someone did something of sufficient worth, they'd be immortalized as a hero

its just that standards are really high. But it's not impossible.

That reminds me. Somebody needs to make a movie of those two and their lesbian pirate adventures together...



For a more positive outlook on the same concept; it's not exactly that humans have gotten weaker but humanity as a whole has gotten so much stronger that feats which would've previously marked one as a "special snowflake hero" (flying through the sky, sending information across thousands of miles in an instant, et cetera) are now things that nearly any human can do with ease. When you think about it, a lot of the things people accomplish thanks to technology would've seemed like godlike feats to most previous eras of humankind...

To quote Rui from Gatchaman Crowds- "What the world needs from now on aren't stand-alone heroes... but the entire human race turned into heroes!"

Humanity as a collective HS when?

and I'm not talking about Alaya

Because we'd rather have a good Shinji than a bad Shinji?

Or so Good Guy Shinji can kill bad guy Shinji and cause a paradox wiping Shinji out from existence entirely? That's a plus.

But a Shinji that is a worthwhile human being is no Shinji at all.

Not the "is Shinji sub-human" debate again

We should just make a poll tbh

Nah, he's not sub-human. Merely an unrepentant, raging asshole. (Understandably so, given his upbringing, but nevertheless true).

Except Extra Shinji. He's pretty alright.

plz stop.

shinji is at his core a guy who desperately seeks to be important.

This isnt particularly evil, but when he's with Zouken, he tends to manifest them as wanting to be a Master, raping his sister, etc.

this is mainly due to the fact that in his childhood, he is surrounded by people who are in every respect more significant than him. He was fucking born into a magus family with NO. MAGIC. CIRCUITS.

Of course he's messed up. Fate Extra is a good example of what a Good Shinji would be like. Sure, he's a prick. But when it comes down to it, he'll lay down his life for what he feels is right.

[Kotonoha]

Because we'd rather have a good Shinji than a bad Shinji?

Sounds bland, Todd

[WhatShouldNotBe]

Sounds bland, Todd

A good Shinji makes the bad Shinji enter a world of worse than death.

Its like shoving his every failure, his every evil, his every sin shoved in his face, and then they point out how he could have done so much better.

angra mainyu would be kinder.

[Kotonoha]

"Shinji, I'm the alternate universe version of you that was nice to Sakura. We have a warm and affectionate family relationship and care deeply for one another"
"Wow, sounds disgusting"

[forumghost]

"Shinji, I'm the alternate universe version of you that was nice to Sakura. We have a warm and affectionate family relationship and care deeply for one another"
"Wow, sounds disgusting"

Pretty much. The only way Shinji cares is if he discovers that not acting like a raging asshat that views everyone around him as some kind of lesser beings somehow gives him superpowers or something.

[WhatShouldNotBe]

"Shinji, I'm the alternate universe version of you that was nice to Sakura. We have a warm and affectionate family relationship and care deeply for one another"
"Wow, sounds disgusting"

"I'm also successful and way better than you will ever be"

thats more like it.

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Pretty much. The only way Shinji cares is if he discovers that not acting like a raging asshat that views everyone around him as some kind of lesser beings somehow gives him superpowers or something.

Weeeeeell.......

[Kotonoha]

Is it really possible to have Zouken approve of you (only important measure of "successful") while being an advocate of Sakura Rights though

[WhatShouldNotBe]

Is it really possible to have Zouken approve of you (only important measure of "successful") while being an advocate of Sakura Rights though

And that's the big difference.

this Good!Shinji doesn't care what Zouken thinks.

[RoydGolden]

And that's the big difference.

this Good!Shinji doesn't care what Zouken thinks.

And I would hardly call the world's creepiest old man approving of you to be a very satisfactory measure of success.

[WhatShouldNotBe]

And I would hardly call the world's creepiest old man approving of you to be a very satisfactory measure of success.

This Shinji would probably consider himself too grand to be constrained by any one man's desires.

[Historia]

So what's the point of this discussion.

[Magikewl]

Gross mischaracterization of my faves that's what

[4score7years]

So what's the point of this discussion.

Before it was about whether or not good!Shinji would work as a HS.

Now it's Shinji character analysis, I guess.

Why all the focus on Shinji lately, I wonder.