Things that annoy you in TM

[forumghost]

I think most people would have liked Sieg better if he had been a girl.

I mean, he already borrows parts from Illya (short lived overpowered homunculus) and Arc (nonhuman tin man that learns to human), then adds a dash of hot blooded hero of justice.

The only thing that really annoys me in FAp is the character design of Jack.

Oh joy. I loath this "B-b-but the only reason you don't like them is coz they aren't a waifu" excuse. It just smacks of the most irritating kind of condescending dismissiveness, and normally only appears when someone has no actual counter argument to what you're saying, or otherwise no desire to actually debate the character.

[jennajayfeather]

Fran was already badly damaged, not to mention losing an arm. Her battle capabilities were reduced to suicide bombing.

The point was it shouldn’t have came to that at all at that point. It’s inherent with the writing, not her physical state for the fight especially if no one’s going to struggle much against Adam/Darnicula anyway. Her sacrificing herself at those points wouldn’t only drive more tension into the scene, it’d also be kind of heroic and things could play out as is. It’d give her more time with Caules & then she could have some interaction with Sieg—

Like I said before it wouldn’t have been nearly as bad to me if Fran & Sieg had any sort of interactions at all together but damn okay let’s just not put any sentimental value in this and have it serve as a super plot device later.

[Keyne]

The point was it shouldn’t have came to that at all at that point. It’s inherent with the writing, not her physical state for the fight especially if no one’s going to struggle much against Adam/Darnicula anyway. Her sacrificing herself at those points wouldn’t only drive more tension into the scene, it’d also be kind of heroic and things could play out as is. It’d give her more time with Caules & then she could have some interaction with Sieg—

Like I said before it wouldn’t have been nearly as bad to me if Fran & Sieg had any sort of interactions at all together but damn okay let’s just not put any sentimental value in this and have it serve as a super plot device later.

All she did was sitting in the flowerbeds, and the only person she interacted with was Caules. Sieg got into the fight because Astolfo was having a bad time, managed to turn Mor's attention away from Fran and gave her the time to prep Blasted Tree. She told Caules that she's gonna leave but she'll leave something to remember her by. Sieg was in the radius of the blast and got hit by the Tree. The ability triggered. Fran did this because Caules wasn't a dick to her, like Victor. It was her whim, not some big result of bonding.

[jennajayfeather]

I understand that you are fine with how the scene played out, but I'm not, and basically if I was writing it I would have tweaked Fran's role a bit.

[Keyne]

I understand that you are fine with how the scene played out, but I'm not, and basically if I was writing it I would have tweaked Fran's role a bit.

And that's cool with me.

[OverMaster]

I think most people would have liked Sieg better if he had been a girl.

I mean, he already borrows parts from Illya (short lived overpowered homunculus) and Arc (nonhuman tin man that learns to human), then adds a dash of hot blooded hero of justice.

Not really. I dislike Girl Hakuno and Girl Guda as much as their male counterparts, because I just don't like their lack of interesting personalities either way.

I'm not even that fond of Tamamo (although I don't hate her either. I used to hate Kiyohime until I realized she's INCREDIBLY AMUSING AND FUNNY AND COOL to write, so I can't blame the writers who use her anymore) precisely because she looks and sounds like she was made by a Waifu-O-Tron machine after a team of scientists pushed as much Japanese Waifu input data as possible.

We still don't even really know what Watcher is yet, or what the qualifying conditions for that Class are, do we? I'd hold off criticism until we find out more.

Pull a chair.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

inb4 he was the Doctor all the time

[TheSeaDragon]

he is right, you know, dont understimate the waifu power, She would basicaly be a teenage lookin Illya lookin for the meaning of her life and with cool servant powers

[Altima of the Gates]

I'm okay with the dynamic of Mordred and Kairi, but it could've been fleshed out significantly more and under a more interesting setting. I liked Achilles and Chiron and I'd have liked for them to have more to do. Semiramis and Fran were cool, too. Everyone else was very much take-it-or-leave-it at best for me, even Karna who I really loved in CCC.

I'll add Extella to the list of "recent TM works I don't like", though I can't speak in detail due to dropping it really quickly.


mike stop puppeting kotonoha wants to know your location

Something that annoys me a little bit about FSN is how lopsided the screentime is between heroines. Rin is prominent in every route (and I have no complaints because she's my favorite), Saber has enough to go around, but Sakura is confined to her own route. I get the reason for this and I fully support this decision, I wouldn't really have it any other way, but it is a little sad to me that there's not even scenes where we see her at school (at least to my memory). It'd have been pretty cool if new scenes were unlocked for old routes after beating HF. Kinda like how Ciel's route in Tsukihime is essentially Arc's but with a little more plot advancement and a different heroine, it'd have been fun to have a Saber route with elements from Heaven's Feel bleeding in. It wouldn't form part of the core narrative, just a bit of extra material for replayability.

I don't really agree with this. There is more than enough to really show Sakura as part of Shirou's family, and hinted at things to come(her reaction to Saber, the mark of the chosen, pretty much all the weird stuff with Rin).

Sure, Rin and Saber are more dynamic, but it's because the "girl who drops from the sky with superpowers" trope just works, add more points for swordswoman tropes.
And Rin was designed to be the knowledgeable one of the group to guide Shirou, plus that school idol-ness thing going on. They are ideals, Sakura isn't, and her flaws are more overtly presented than the other two.
Sakura is in trouble herself, and sees her life that was starting to get better crumbling underneath her. The game did well enough that you can see where she stands on things, and her private talk with Shirou in Distant Twilight pretty much succinctly showed what we saw in the past routes, her apprehension with Rin, how she feels about Shirou, her thoughts about magecraft and what she was hiding from past routes, the works.
You can go back and realize that logically, Sakura trying to get herself more involved just has too many downsides and not many if any upsides. What we learned in HF is that the war is pretty much all a buncha BS, so her reactions are realistic for her circumstances. Any side material would have be mostly internal narration that sounds like it would be from Shikamaru or Touma, where she muses that shit sucks because there are no good routes for her to take.

I think most people would have liked Sieg better if he had been a girl.

No, girls get plenty of scrutiny these days. Plus, Ilya and Arc are liked for a plethora of reasons. Ilya's overpoweredness is not even shown very much in FSN, the anime made her herself look threatening outside of just being Berserker's master, so there were other factors at play for her.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

I don't really agree with this. There is more than enough to really show Sakura as part of Shirou's family, and hinted at things to come(her reaction to Saber, the mark of the chosen, pretty much all the weird stuff with Rin).

Sure, Rin and Saber are more dynamic, but it's because the "girl who drops from the sky with superpowers" trope just works, add more points for swordswoman tropes.
And Rin was designed to be the knowledgeable one of the group to guide Shirou, plus that school idol-ness thing going on. They are ideals, Sakura isn't, and her flaws are more overtly presented than the other two.
Sakura is in trouble herself, and sees her life that was starting to get better crumbling underneath her. The game did well enough that you can see where she stands on things, and her private talk with Shirou in Distant Twilight pretty much succinctly showed what we saw in the past routes, her apprehension with Rin, how she feels about Shirou, her thoughts about magecraft and what she was hiding from past routes, the works.
You can go back and realize that logically, Sakura trying to get herself more involved just has too many downsides and not many if any upsides. What we learned in HF is that the war is pretty much all a buncha BS, so her reactions are realistic for her circumstances. Any side material would have be mostly internal narration that sounds like it would be from Shikamaru or Touma, where she muses that shit sucks because there are no good routes for her to take.



No, girls get plenty of scrutiny these days. Plus, Ilya and Arc are liked for a plethora of reasons. Ilya's overpoweredness is not even shown very much in FSN, the anime made her herself look threatening outside of just being Berserker's master, so there were other factors at play for her.

Fair enough. I wasn't trying to imply Sakura isn't interesting in lacking screentime compared to the others; on the contrary, I think she's got the most meat to her character out of the three and her route is my favorite to revisit. I think it's a great decision to keep her mostly under wraps after the prologue and setup until the VN's third act; I just really like her and would've liked to see a what-if on how her continued presence could've altered Fate and UBW.

[TheSeaDragon]

Several people question HF because they couldnt get invested enought in her , so i get what Toa is triyin to say

[Altima of the Gates]

I see where Toa is coming from. Though Nasu gave you clues on some what ifs. If she found out that Shinji misuses Rider, she would stop him. We don't know how or the aftermath of it. Does she Wayne Brady him or does it end peacefully is something only Nasu knows.
She can't get involved or Zouken gets intrigued. Letting Shirou in on anything causes problems since he'll ask too may questions. Rin checked her for command spells in canon, so her being a master now. Then the obvious thing is Rider using her abilities tanks her out on MP, which is always draining by the second.

The main thing is most people want hero moments in the midst of struggle, that scenario is nothing but struggle.

[TheSeaDragon]

I see where Toa is coming from. Though Nasu gave you clues on some what ifs. If she found out that Shinji misuses Rider, she would stop him. We don't know how or the aftermath of it. Does she Wayne Brady him or does it end peacefully is something only Nasu knows.
She can't get involved or Zouken gets intrigued. Letting Shirou in on anything causes problems since he'll ask too may questions. Rin checked her for command spells in canon, so her being a master now. Then the obvious thing is Rider using her abilities tanks her out on MP, which is always draining by the second.

The main thing is most people want hero moments in the midst of struggle, that scenario is nothing but struggle.

i agree with last sentence related to a lot of people who question her. I mean, i feel like they expect someone who went trought everything she did to be some action super girl and that would not make sense. But i dont think Toa want heroic moments , he just asked for more of her whatsoever, and thats legit

[warellis]

I always kind of felt a problem with HF was how unlike Fate or UBW, Sakura never sort of gets an early on break to help establish more character moments between her and Shirou, where they have some fun, before everything starts going to hell. Nothing like little dates or chit-chat or whatever.

It didn't help that Sakura was essentially kicked out halfway in Fate or UBW so we only see or hear about her again right at the end of either route, so there isn't much to help a first time player get interested in her beyond "oh she's the protag's practically not-wife." At least that's how I feel.

I always got the feeling Rin & Saber got to have more normal interactions with Shirou which let a first time player get sort of invested in both.

[Urameshi Yūsuke]

I always kind of felt a problem with HF was how unlike Fate or UBW, Sakura never sort of gets an early on break to help establish more character moments between her and Shirou, where they have some fun, before everything starts going to hell. Nothing like little dates or chit-chat or whatever.

It didn't help that Sakura was essentially kicked out halfway in Fate or UBW so we only see or hear about her again right at the end of either route, so there isn't much to help a first time player get interested in her beyond "oh she's the protag's practically not-wife." At least that's how I feel.

I always got the feeling Rin & Saber got to have more normal interactions with Shirou which let a first time player get sort of invested in both.

I think a large part of that was Sakuras entire backstory being super dark, and giving anything away, even just tiny minor details, could have spoiler the darkest and most grueling of the routes.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Personally, I favor Rin because in every route, she is Shirou's partner, and for the most part, they stick together and have a strong platonic relationship regardless of what Shirou chooses. The romance in UBW is just the cherry on top to a wonderful friendship/team sundae that already exists. That, and every route, or at least UBW and HF, hint at some attraction between the two, regardless of whether it gets resolved or not. That, and the Rin, Shirou, and Saber team is perhaps my favorite team and my number one wish would be to see a reunion between Saber and grown up Rin and Shirou kinda like the Team 7 Reunion in Naruto Shippuden/Part II, specifically when they become the Neo-Sannin to fight the Ten Tails clones.

[Rafflesiac]

Rin and Kirei got dates instead of Sakura, RIP Bargain Bait Shop

[TheSeaDragon]

Personally, I favor Rin because in every route, she is Shirou's partner, and for the most part, they stick together and have a strong platonic relationship regardless of what Shirou chooses. The romance in UBW is just the cherry on top to a wonderful friendship/team sundae that already exists. That, and every route, or at least UBW and HF, hint at some attraction between the two, regardless of whether it gets resolved or not. That, and the Rin, Shirou, and Saber team is perhaps my favorite team and my number one wish would be to see a reunion between Saber and grown up Rin and Shirou kinda like the Team 7 Reunion in Naruto Shippuden/Part II, specifically when they become the Neo-Sannin to fight the Ten Tails clones.

unpopular opininon ahead, but thats why i dont care that much for the romance of UBW, because it is barely a romance, even at the end, they feel like pals with benefits. The archer farewell is one of my fav scenes, but if you see it, thats not rin sayin goodbye to a alternate version of the man she loves, its a goodbye to a friend. You said it yourself , ther chemistry is not that different from the other rutes

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

unpopular opininon ahead, but thats why i dont care that much for the romance of UBW, because it is barely a romance, even at the end, they feel like pals with benefits. The archer farewell is one of my fav scenes, but if you see it, thats not rin sayin goodbye to a alternate version of the man she loves, its a goodbye to a friend. You said it yourself , ther chemistry is not that different from the other rutes

I am personally a sucker for partner-type romances because ultimately their love is built on a deep mutual trust as opposed to fleeting feelings of affection and lust, and there's no doubt that it will stand the test of time. IMO, a true romance should basically be a based on trust and loyalty, with love coming as a result, and that's definitely the case with Rin and Shirou. They trust each other wholeheartedly, they know each others flaws and vulnerabilities, and thus they are willing to rely on each other to accomplish together what neither can do alone. They are best friends, and simultaneously lovers.

[TheSeaDragon]

Rin and Kirei got dates instead of Sakura, RIP Bargain Bait Shop

and Rins rute heroine is Archer