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Thread: Things that annoy you in TM

  1. #6921
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSkipRow View Post
    You pick Mordred of all people? The new CM for Lostbelt 5.2 came a few minutes ago and guess who's back? Fucking Musashi for the millionth time because she's someone's waifu or some shit. Mordred is also there but at least she doesn't show up as often as Musashi.
    Uhm, we KNEW that Musashi was in LB 5.2 from, you know, LB 5.1

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    Tbh, Shiro knows a lot about mythical figures and heroes and such. It actually makes sense, though. He has that whole "Hero of Justice" obsession, so it stands to reason he'd be fascinated by anything that has heroic figures in it, including video games and the like. His way of rationalizing it just kind of stuck, but iirc, there's an image out there of someone else's interpretation of Servant status that looks differently.

    Shiro just understands it as a game structure because that's what's easiest for him to comprehend.
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  3. #6923
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Nanashi(kari)'s Avatar
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    It really bothers me how most OC NPs such as Rule Breaker aren't at least named in the language of where the Servant originated from.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    Tiné sees Parameters as river streams varying in speed and intensity but I think that's the first time we actually saw a different interpretation from Shirou's. It's pretty cool.

  5. #6925
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    Uhm, we KNEW that Musashi was in LB 5.2 from, you know, LB 5.1
    Yeah, pretty weird pick to rag on, for once.
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  6. #6926
    月日は百代の過客にして、行かふ年も又旅 人也。 Benderesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSkipRow View Post


    Try being a Persona fan.
    I like Persona - in fact, Shin Megami Tensei games in general, especially the mainline games.

    That said - and I know I will get some flack for saying this - it doesn't irritate me as much in Persona, since none of their female characters are all that interesting in the first place, in my view. They might have a general outline of what an interesting, attractive woman would be, but they are never given enough depth to truly make me annoyed that I can't spend more time with them. The fact that the social links are so poorly integrated - oh, we are now BFFs? GUESS I DON'T HAVE TO SPEND TIME WITH YOU EVER AGAIN - certainly does not help.
    Last edited by Benderesco; April 8th, 2020 at 08:52 PM.

  7. #6927
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six forumghost's Avatar
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    I wouldn't necessarily say that Social Links are 'poorly integrated' so much as it's a video game and there are inherent limitations in play because of that.

    You can only program in so many events, and if you have social links reverting because you aren't spending time with people it makes the often strict time management aspects of the game into a literal hell.

  8. #6928
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benderesco View Post
    I like Persona - in fact, Shin Megami Tensei games in general, especially the mainline games.

    That said - and I know I will get some flack for saying this - it doesn't irritate me as much in Persona, since none of their female characters are all that interesting in the first place, in my view. They might have a general outline of what an interesting, attractive woman would be, but they are never given enough depth to truly make me annoyed that I can't spend more time with them. The fact that the social links are so poorly integrated - oh, we are now BFFs? GUESS I DON'T HAVE TO SPEND TIME WITH YOU EVER AGAIN - certainly does not help.
    What is your solution? They can't write infinite scenes because you want to keep hanging out with your favorite character, and writing stuff beyond the point at which you get all the gameplay bonuses is basically meaningless since you have limited time and will probably spend it with other people.

  9. #6929
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    Procedurally generated character interactions in a sandbox.

    Even writing that was oof
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  10. #6930
    月日は百代の過客にして、行かふ年も又旅 人也。 Benderesco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    I wouldn't necessarily say that Social Links are 'poorly integrated' so much as it's a video game and there are inherent limitations in play because of that.

    You can only program in so many events, and if you have social links reverting because you aren't spending time with people it makes the often strict time management aspects of the game into a literal hell.
    I agree. I believe I didn't make myself clear in my post - I don't exactly consider that "poor" integration a demerit on the part of the game. Given Atlus' choices on how to weave the social links into the gameplay and the the sheer number of characters, anything more than what we already have would probably be too much of a strain on what is not an overly large team. That balancing act, though, makes it so that the social aspect of the game - and the characters - are simpler than what they'd have to be for me, specifically, to be fascinated by them. I don't play these games for the characters, though, but for the dungeon crawling, so it does not really matter - the social events and the characters are fun enough, even though they don't exactly leave a lasting impression on me, and that delicious SMT gameplay keeps me coming back.

    Just to exemplify the fact that I play these for the gameplay , I don't particularly care for the third and fourth Personas, even though they are quite well-made. The first and second were enjoyable enough for several reasons, but the social events of the high-school games, while nice, were not enough to truly hook me, and the gameplay was too divergent from traditional SMT (especially those procedurally-generated dungeons, which bored me after a while). The only reason I picked up (and finished) Persona 5 was because it incorporated demon negotiations and several other gameplay aspects that brought it much closer to the mainline series (it is basically SMT-lite). The social links and the characters were well-made, but I see them solely as a bonus: I get to dungeon crawl AND enjoy a simple and fun story at the same time.


    Quote Originally Posted by pinetree View Post
    What is your solution? They can't write infinite scenes because you want to keep hanging out with your favorite character, and writing stuff beyond the point at which you get all the gameplay bonuses is basically meaningless since you have limited time and will probably spend it with other people.
    As I said above, given the way the game is built, what we have now is probably the best we can get within Atlus's capabilities. And I wouldn't propose a solution because I actually prefer it this way: since I play these for the dungeon-crawling, any more character development and story complexity would divert resources from the rest of the game. When I want deep character interaction in a game, I go with titles other than those made by Atlus.

    Of course, I won't deny that a SMT/Persona game with deep character interaction would be absolutely fascinating - but that would probably require MUCH more money and manpower than Atlus currently has, if they were to stick to the same level of quality we've come to expect from them.
    Last edited by Benderesco; April 9th, 2020 at 12:58 AM.

  11. #6931
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    That's why you instead play their best series, Etrian Odyssey, and make up all the main characters and character interactions.

  12. #6932
    リビングデッド Living Dead TheSkipRow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinetree View Post
    What is your solution? They can't write infinite scenes because you want to keep hanging out with your favorite character, and writing stuff beyond the point at which you get all the gameplay bonuses is basically meaningless since you have limited time and will probably spend it with other people.
    This might be unpopular because some people hate certain characters but... make the S-Links mandatory. The fact that they're optional hurts a lot of the supposed character development they present. Instead, maybe make them part of the story itself, or better yet, make the characters act differently in the story if you completed their S-Link. Changing a line where Ryuji says something stupid to him saying something more mature wouldn't take much work for example. Make Yukari more attached to Makoto in the main story with 2 lines of dialogue or something.

    Final Fantasy 7 had 2 scenes of dialogue with Tifa depending on whether you got enough points I seem to remember.

  13. #6933
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    If you did that though, you'd remove Persona's entire draw, the day to day schedule management. At that point it's just mainline SMT.

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  14. #6934
    Wyrd oft nereð unfǽgne eorl, þonne his ellen déah... Skull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
    At that point it's just mainline SMT.
    You say that like it's a bad thing...

  15. #6935
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    I am tired of tiresome things.
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  16. #6936
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSkipRow View Post
    This might be unpopular because some people hate certain characters but... make the S-Links mandatory. The fact that they're optional hurts a lot of the supposed character development they present.
    Dude that's a terrible idea. You want to take away player agency from the game and force you to experience the stories of a dozen side-characters you might not care about in a series for which the main criticism currently is that the games go on for too long.

  17. #6937
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skull View Post
    You say that like it's a bad thing...
    It wouldn't be if one came out more often than once a decade.

    How long has it been since we've heard a word about SMT 5? Four years since that one E3 trailer?

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    Never give up my dude. It'll be a release title on NEW Switch Up!

  19. #6939
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six asterism42's Avatar
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    OK, I'm pretty sure I hate FGO now

    I want off Nasu's wild ride
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    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
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    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  20. #6940
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    What triggered this reaction?
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    [16:43] <Twelveseal> Phallus in wonderland sounds like some bad loli-rape KC fanfic
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