Things that annoy you in TM

[Twelveseal]

Tbh, that may be a build up to having him be the MC of a theoretical 1st Fuyuki War depiction, likely focusing on the Founders in general. His original motivations are aligned with the Emiyas...

[Byegod]

Tbh, that may be a build up to having him be the MC of a theoretical 1st Fuyuki War depiction, likely focusing on the Founders in general. His original motivations are aligned with the Emiyas...

Maybe but too little too late at least for me, and its a common thread that nasu wants you to pity a person who has done such terrible things, just give me more kirei's and stop reusing the same motivation

[Bobin]

Zouken being this once capable and and idealist overflowing with respectable purpose degrading himself into a immortality-obsessed rotten husk that clings to life using penis worms is suppose to be compound on the disparity of how pathetic and unsightly his existence has become from the golden point of his life.

It's a different matter if the wank of Zouken's importance itself annoys you, but there's nothing wrong with the message that even self-made monsters may have been a decent individual once upon a time.

[Byegod]

Zouken being this once capable and and idealist overflowing with respectable purpose degrading himself into a immortality-obsessed rotten husk that clings to life using penis worms is suppose to be compound on the disparity of how pathetic and unsightly his existence has become from the golden point of his life.

It's a different matter if the wank of Zouken's importance itself annoys you, but there's nothing wrong with the message that even self-made monsters may have been a decent individual once upon a time.

Understandable, its a bit of both and its more a annoyance with the trend that naus does the whole feel bad for them far too much and at times it feels undeserved?

But the wank of zoukens importance also annoys me as well

[AAM1232]

Understandable, its a bit of both and its more a annoyance with the trend that naus does the whole feel bad for them far too much and at times it feels undeserved?

But the wank of zoukens importance also annoys me as well

I mean how important is he really? Like ignoring the line about a heroic background being undeserved, just how important do you think Zouken is in the works vs other characters?

[Altima of the Gates]

Maybe but too little too late at least for me, and its a common thread that nasu wants you to pity a person who has done such terrible things, just give me more kirei's and stop reusing the same motivation

If we are honest, Kirei is not much better. He boils his entire being on being really pissed on not having an answer for essentially schadenfraude, being raised in an ideology that counters that.
I guess if you consider it better that he is honest with his desires to a point, but the fact he wants an answer means he might not be entirely honest at all.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Tbh, that may be a build up to having him be the MC of a theoretical 1st Fuyuki War depiction, likely focusing on the Founders in general. His original motivations are aligned with the Emiyas...

Nah, Nagato is the perfect protag for this. He's a naive newcomer with a penchant for screwups, and the whole thing happens on his home turf. He's definitely more of an everyman than Makiri or Justeaze.

[Twelveseal]

Not really? I mean, yeah, it's his home turf, but basically that just describes male Rin... and his goal is the same as hers. The quest for the Root is hard to relate to. Saving people, meanwhile, is literally the exact same motivation they used for both FSN and Zero's protags and is pretty easy to get.

He's also got a canon love interest that seems star-crossed.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

He also basically kept following Zelrecht to learn magecraft until the old Magician taught him some to repay a hotel room bill. That definitely shows a Waver-esque determination to succeed despite lacking a lineage.

In addition, he'd be a good viewpoint character to see Zouken x Justeaze from a bird's-eye, as well as a means to introduce the audience to any new concepts.

In any case, he might be a decent deuteragonist.

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Nagato is also the one we know the least about of the Founders.

[Twelveseal]

Valid points, but the argument lends itself more to the idea that there wouldn't be a single, true protagonist in the work. Instead, it seems like it would be split at least between those two.

Can't imagine Nasu would make Justeaze a protagonist in her own right, but that would be an interesting take imo.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Sounds like Zero, then. Justeaze might get an interlude or 2. Otherwise, since she mostly served as the Foundation, I'm not sure.

[Twelveseal]

Yeah. But I mean, he doesn't have the best record with female perspectives.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

No, Nasu does not.

[Menwearpink]

Well the question is what is the point of the story.

I don’t think Justeaze is really much of a viewpoint character unless it’s a short story about sad robots and their not human but pure minds and thoughts.

the most nature “protagonist” for a story of putting together the ritual and the failings of the first two wars is probably Zouken. Hero man and also the guy who responds to the problems by making command seals and stuff.

[Twelveseal]

Also, exposing him as the secret originator of Tabletop RPGs...

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I still personally want to see Nagato's POV because we still know so little about him, we could learn some Kirishtan lore, and we'd learn what it's like to be a mage starting a lineage.

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Not opposed to switching back and forth with Zouken and/or Zouken being the true "main character".

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Also, I thought Zouken and Justeaze shared the same ideals initially, so Justeaze's story could be about her gradually learning to appreciate and decide to strive for human perfection.

[Zork Knight]

I feel like already knowing exactly how Zouken ended up would diminish his protagonist potential

[Twelveseal]

I'm not sure about that, if you're playing up the tragedy.

[Rafflesiac]

I feel like already knowing exactly how Zouken ended up would diminish his protagonist potential

It worked out for Kerry!

[Mcjon01]

All these people pretending the POV character won’t be some rando that was forgotten by history and surface-level is nothing special but ends up being pivotal to events and bangs Nagato’s daughter