Things that annoy you in TM

[Arashi_Leonhart]

TG and Sandanzuki got promoted in FGO too. Because reasons. And ease of gameplay. Just like some NPs got downgraded to skills, because reasons, and ease of gameplay.

I dunno what's so unclear about it. No Second Strike ought to even clarify it, since they point out "he's peak bajiquan, able to do NSS, which is embodiment of his technique."

[castor212]

But tsubame gaeshi also said to be kojiro's pinnacle of swordsmanship yet it aint NP. i mean, its even one of his most famous anecdote irl

Meanwhile, Billy's anecodte of triple firing super fast classified as NP. Its just weird some got NP status some doesnt

you can more or less reverse extrapolate it but in the end, the drawn line aint clear

- - - Updated - - -

No Second Strike is kind of a weird case since it's listed as an NP despite technically not being one.

It has 対人宝具 in its extra mats entry orogonally

Meanwhile tsubame gaeshi and sandanzuki only has 対人魔剣, and still does in the mats

[Arashi_Leonhart]

I'm confused. In Extra and FSN, NSS and TG are both not-NPs. In FGO, they are. They're the same thing. Is it about that?

If its just "but Kojirou's famous for TG and Shuwen is famous for NSS, why not NP" then, well, you have the skill tree idea is that they're an embodiment or expression of a style of combat rather than an anecdote given form. NPs are replications of myth given form.

It sorta ties into the fact that Kojirou isn't Kojirou, yet knows the real thing's technique. This is in contrast to Herk's Nine Lives or Cu's thrown Gae Bolg, which are also techniques, but unique to them. NSS is the core concept of a martial art, so, allocate all your skill points there and you can do it maybe. Allocate all your skill points to spearfighting or lazor dragon bows and you won't Gae Bolg or Nine Lives.


Basically, TG or NSS is that case in a D&D game where, to get the feat whirlwind attack you have to first get a bunch of other feats first to qualify. Nine Lives or Gae Bolg isn't something on the sheet, though, but that one time when you cheesed the system and shot brilliant energy shots from your bow and rolled nat 20 three times in a row and then you used a Wish spell to be able to repeat that feat once per day as your signature move because fuck the DM, you're motherfucking Herakles.

[Neir]

I'm confused. In Extra and FSN, NSS and TG are both not-NPs. In FGO, they are. They're the same thing. Is it about that?

If its just "but Kojirou's famous for TG and Shuwen is famous for NSS, why not NP" then, well, you have the skill tree idea is that they're an embodiment or expression of a style of combat rather than an anecdote given form. NPs are replications of myth given form.

It sorta ties into the fact that Kojirou isn't Kojirou, yet knows the real thing's technique. This is in contrast to Herk's Nine Lives or Cu's thrown Gae Bolg, which are also techniques, but unique to them. NSS is the core concept of a martial art, so, allocate all your skill points there and you can do it maybe. Allocate all your skill points to spearfighting or lazor dragon bows and you won't Gae Bolg or Nine Lives.


Basically, TG or NSS is that case in a D&D game where, to get the feat whirlwind attack you have to first get a bunch of other feats first to qualify. Nine Lives or Gae Bolg isn't something on the sheet, though, but that one time when you cheesed the system and shot brilliant energy shots from your bow and rolled nat 20 three times in a row and then you used a Wish spell to be able to repeat that feat once per day as your signature move because fuck the DM, you're motherfucking Herakles.

please tell me you actually did that

[Arashi_Leonhart]

It has 対人宝具 in its extra mats entry orogonally

Meanwhile tsubame gaeshi and sandanzuki only has 対人魔剣, and still does in the mats

Okay, now I get what you're saying. Shuwen's the case where he does something like the Herk example, but had to get all the feats in the first place.

Now you have the monk that can do this massive damage hit with a bunch of feats. Shuwen is then the guy that did that.

- - - Updated - - -

please tell me you actually did that

There has been a time where we've fought a boss, someone went up, hit them with 3 nat 20s in a row to murderize them, and then decided he was going to build his character around trying to replicate that as best as he could, but we then party wiped two adventures later so he never got the chance.

[castor212]

I'm confused. In Extra and FSN, NSS and TG are both not-NPs. In FGO, they are. They're the same thing. Is it about that?.

Eh? NSS has always been categorized as 対人宝具 tho, even in Extra? Meanwhile TG is still, despite being put in the NP zection, 対人魔剣. They arent the same. NSS has always neen technique turning into NP to begin with.

Herk example

So this?

for that comparison, would things like no second strike or thunderer be a skill in a skill tree but got Legendary Heroic Feats quest upgrade reward and got promoted to be more than just a skill

- - - Updated - - -

You see, its the fact that things like Thunderer, Billy's NP which is an anecdote and a skill he does in real life, qualifies as NP, while TG and Sandanzuki, which is basically the same thing but maybe even greater, isnt, that annoys me.

Or stuffs like NSS, which is all skill point poured to Baji quan skill tree embodied the feat of killing an enemy in a single strike, qualifies as NP, whereas TG, which is all skill point poured to swordsmanship skill tree embodied a triple slashes unblockable by the enemy, doesnt qualify.

I hope you see my points. Its just unclear which qualifies and which doesnt.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

But can anyone else be Billy the Kid firing the gun? Can anyone else be Li Shuwen doing his OPM? Meanwhile, Tsubame Gaeshi can be done by a random farmer. It might be different if there was a real Kojirou, in which case it might be "Sasaki Kojirou swings his sword."

[castor212]

Then can anyone else be Okita doing triple trust.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Yeah, his name is Seta Soujirou

But seriously, the hirazuki moves were Shinsengumi wide and Okita wasn't even the one that devised it so

[AvengerEmiya]

Musashi might.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Musashi would just stab you with three literal swords

[castor212]

Yeah, his name is Seta Soujirou

But seriously, the hirazuki moves were Shinsengumi wide and Okita wasn't even the one that devised it so

Ye but does anyone else other than her thrust three times at the same time and breakdown reality and causality

This is "real Okita thrusting her sword." Just like NSS, her genius plus training and hardwork at putting all those skill points to the tennen rishin ryu skill tree. Yes, anybody with dedication can do that. But then through all that she managed to do triple thrust that breakdown reality and causality.

Now you have the swordswoman that can do this ignore armor value damage hit with a bunch of feats.

Pretty singular feat, if you ask me, yet it aint NP

I know that the outlier is like, only 2, TG and SZK, but it still annoys me. The line aint clear.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Ye but does anyone else other than her thrust three times at the same time and breakdown reality and causality

I dunno, wait until the other dozen noteworthy Shinsengumi show up

Watch Saitou do it in two hits

Watch Hijikata do it with a gun

- - - Updated - - -

Watch Serizawa do it drunken fist style

[castor212]

Watch until a dozen noteworthy gunmen show up and do Billy's deed but with 5 shots instead of 3. Watcj it as they do it with a rifle. Watch it as Calamity Jane do it striptease style.

Its discrimination to our 2 japanese swordsman, says I.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Watch Sano do it with a fist because sanjou no kiwami and come full circle with the joke

- - - Updated - - -

Why is it discrimination? It's actually just saying they're even more OP because this isn't something they need to pump magical energy into to do, they can just spam it whenever they want and/or aren't coughing to death

[castor212]

Thunderer can also be spammed. Virtually it aint any different than TG or SZK

Point is

Where do you draw the line

PreThunderer or prefgo id accept your explanation and interesting D&D metaphor, but now? Psh. Shit's unclear.

- - - Updated - - -

But seriously, the hirazuki moves were Shinsengumi wide and Okita wasn't even the one that devised it so

I mean, the moves of shooting a gun were wild west wide and Billy wasnt even the one who devise it, yet his is an NP sooo

Kojiro get the excuse of being nameless genius swordsman farmer i stead of Kojiro, ok enough. Not with Okita. If Thunderer qualifies as NP, SZK not qualifying is just weird. The line is just obscure.

Which annoys me.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

It makes sense when you realize Sandanzuki is just a joke reference to Ruro Ken but Nasuized.

[castor212]

Wow, that just annoys me even more

Doubly so for snorting out of it

[RoydGolden]

It's worth noting that even Thunderer is said to be closer to a Personal Skill then an NP, even though it's officially listed as the latter.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

I mean, the moves of shooting a gun were wild west wide and Billy wasnt even the one who devise it, yet his is an NP sooo

You misunderstand.

Billy the Kid's NP is "the myth of what happens when Billy the Kid holds this gun and fires."

Sandanzuki is a move of a style. It's not "the myth of what happens when Okita Souji holds this sword and stabs." Maybe if Okita were uniquely synonymous with those moves, it'd be different, like Shuwen being synonymous with bajiquan itself, but yeah, instead you've got all these practitioners with moves from that style. Billy the Kid is pretty synonymous with old west shootouts. Okita isn't even the most famous bakumatsu swordsman and probably not the most famous hirazuki stabber.