I have spoken to some people who are less than happy with van Gogh's suicide being interpreted as a heroic act of sacrifice
I have spoken to some people who are less than happy with van Gogh's suicide being interpreted as a heroic act of sacrifice
Originally Posted by Sandstorm77
That struck me too now. I wonder if some of that has to do with Japanese views on suicide, where it isn't necessarily considered a "sinful" or "taboo" act the same way as in the West (the modern, Christian West at least, the Romans had a more ambiguous view of suicide closer to the Japanese) but can be justified or even heroic. Still, even while Heroic Spirits are... dubiously related to the actual figures in question, to take a RL guy who committed suicide out of despair and mental illness and say it was actually a heroic act needed to save the world is understandably going to ruffle a few feathers.
Last edited by RoydGolden; November 26th, 2020 at 11:27 PM.
You can include me in that, super familiar with depression and mental illness so that irks me a bit more than most.
Remember that Japan has had centuries where ritual seppuku was the go-to option, and the more honourable path. It's kind of hard to shake a mentality that lasted almost a millennia.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
I read a manga that had a chapter discussing suicide actually.
**************dex.org/title/28694/we-...w-begin-ethics
It was rather interesting to see that interpretation and the author's own experience on it. It helps me keep in mind that there are different ways to be considered depressed too.
Alcides is indeed fake Herc. it's Narita's statement representing other writers and readers to Kinoko who doesn't write sane Herc till now.
Yeah narita didnt want to write real herc, though im not sure if nasu even wants to tbh.
The only difference is your preference in flavours of crazy.
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Valerio Massimo Manfredi... oh boy, I sure do remember THAT name.
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Being able to call them "Van Gogh" without a paragraph-sized asterisk next to their name is a good start. Names have meaning.
Last edited by Deathhappens; November 27th, 2020 at 01:17 PM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Oh? Sounds like there's a story there, Dh!
Well, I'll be damned. Half a year of content in two months. We'll see where it goes.
Not a terribly interesting one, just that reading one of his books (title was something like The Return from Troy? It was about Diomedes discovering his wife wanted to murder him to set up some kind of earth mother queen cult and ditching her to harass some natives, steal their only fertile woman and make a new kingdom in some mythic land) landed me in some hot water with my history teacher back in the day.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Honestly, Makiri Zolgen annoys me because he's all hype with no showing in various media.
Oh, Paracelsious knew him, Helena knew him, he created the Grail Ritual (with help), etc and yet he is never really "shown" doing anything.
He gets hyped up, and shilled, more and more but with nothing showing ever.
It's like all talk, no actual showing of what he is capable of really, it feels like to me.
I totally get you, ive complained bout this as well, it feels like nasu wants to make him more important then he is
I guess it also doesn't help that Justeaze was just a winter doll who would die if so much as a stiff breeze hit her and Nagato was some sort of wealthy 1st-gen magus, so Makiri seems potentially more interesting in comparison.
But Makiri ultimately is littoe more than hype. And frankly, Nagato sounds kind of more interesting now that I think on him.
It does start to make me wonder if the Tohsaka, as secret Christians, had originally been agents of the Church before Nagato was turned to the magus side.
Maybe, I do think the zouken thing also touches on a issue i have with him and a lot of other villians in TM, nasu has this annoying habit of trying to make them 'formerly' good and act like it nullifies some of the badness, or something like that
What's worse, Nasu never shows them as actually formerly good. We're just told they were.
And for Zouken and Zolgen, all appearances of them have been firmly on the villainous side (especially with how utterly sadistic Zouken is revealed to be).
Gil I'm iffy on. He kind of feels like Nasu lately trying to back away from Stay Night & Zero's portrayals of him. Because yeah, neither was exactly flattering.
As for Roa, yeah we really get nothing of him pre-vampire days unfortunately, beyond something about how his first boss/friend essentially let him become a vampire. Oh and something about how his twue wuv for Arcueid explains all his motivations.
Last edited by warellis; December 20th, 2020 at 04:14 AM.
Honestly im not even sure zouken makes much sense at this point, his detoiration seems to have been really damn quick if we take him being a bishy in FGO in the late 18th century as canon
I feel like nasu hasnt heard of the whole 'cool story, still killed people' reply or the joke that this character was sad once so all the genocide is okay.
Late 19th century is when he was still bishie. And then just 50 years later, by the 1930s-1940s, he's already the old wrinkly guy.
Honestly, I kind of wonder if his utter sadism was always something he had.
I mean, worm torture wouldn't be any better if the excuse was "someday it'll be for a better world" or something like that I imagine.
And the thing is, since we know Zouken only wanted an heir so a Matou master could participate in the Grail War and that his "Crest" is nothing of the sort in reality, I wonder if he was already pulling his fakery by the 2nd Grail War.
Maybe, its hard to say, another observation i made is that outside of one or two exceptions, the characters who are allegedly good or formerly "good" are often far worse people then those who are "evil" or nasu insists are really evil.
Gil, twice, zouken ect all fit this mold vs those who have a evil alignment or whatever but are often times mostly petty or have sympathetic reasons but nasu insists there far worse (tamamo, eresh, are two obvious ones, i played extella recently and her route was very underwhelming in how "evil" she was when medusa called her a good ruler at one point)
In the flashbacks in the HF movies he already looks more than a bit like a corpse, albeit quite a handsome one.
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