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Thread: Things that annoy you in TM

  1. #7441
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    FGO has some good plot beats, but Fujimaru is not one of them.

    Honestly, if it were being written as, like, a VN or a book or something, Mash would almost certainly be the main character.
    I legit think you could have had Romani be the MC and the on the ground Master for part 1 and have Mash be the MC for part 2.

    I doubt Romani had so much technical expertise that Da Vinci with all her genius couldn't do without in terms of working from the control room

  2. #7442
    I'd never considered it before, but FGO with Romani as the protagonist actually sounds like a really interesting proposition.

  3. #7443
    Romani: acted like a machine his whole life and gained humanity in his second life. A lot of the story revolves around him

    Mash: homonculus that was taught to be human, was basically Roman's daughter and part 2 revolves around her former friends. It is also theorised that she will be revealed to be an important factor in the endgame plan for part 2

    Part 3 MC: best girl Gordolf that learned courage and humility

  4. #7444
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    gettin real tired of these people who act like machines

    but not as tired as i am of the opposite
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  5. #7445
    We Want to Protect that Head OverMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    You can absolutely have a viewpoint character who mostly only reacts to outside factors - see "Moby Dick" 's Ishmael* for an example -, but the plot and other characters need to pick up the slack in some way.

    * Which you absolutely should, because it's a great novel, warts and all.

    I'd argue the main failing in GO's writing is that too much of it relies on Fujimaru specifically engaging with the events and people around them, and they're too much of a blank slate for that to work. I don't think it's coincidence that the chapter that is widely considered the best one, Camelot, relies much more on the other characters than on the supposed protagonist to keep the story engaging for the reader.
    Moby Dick is also a much shorter narrative than GO. The longer your story is, the richer and more complex your lead character needs to get to keep them interesting.

  6. #7446
    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    Romani: acted like a machine his whole life and gained humanity in his second life. A lot of the story revolves around him

    Mash: homonculus that was taught to be human, was basically Roman's daughter and part 2 revolves around her former friends. It is also theorised that she will be revealed to be an important factor in the endgame plan for part 2

    Part 3 MC: best girl Gordolf that learned courage and humility
    Mash is a designer baby, not a homunculus. Quite a difference.
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  7. #7447
    The Plesioth Hip Check of life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    gettin real tired of these people who act like machines

    but not as tired as i am of the opposite
    What do you have against artificial intelligences
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    Yeah, but that's because he's got more issues than National Geographic.
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    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
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  8. #7448
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Kubera's Avatar
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    Guda is a shounen protag to the core, too much of fgo (bond with Mashu/Fou, rivarly with Wodime, servants protecting, guiding, testing & being interested in him) is centered about him being an average guy with a simplistic wordview but a surprisingly strong willpower & blind trust and capable of accepting anyone. A more typical TM protagonist or an adult like Romani wouldn't work without changing FGO at its core.

    Mashu however would work wonderfully if she was the one actually attracting all the servants, interacting with their enemies, taking crucial decisions and in general being allowed to grow without her precious mastah around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    gettin real tired of these people who act like machines

    but not as tired as i am of the opposite

    There's basically at least one "acts like machine but actually human" character per FGO chapter at this point.

  9. #7449
    love warrior <3 world-0 the god of world-0's Avatar
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    Mash is a shield, she needs someone to protect.


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  10. #7450
    Quote Originally Posted by Kubera View Post
    A more typical TM protagonist or an adult like Romani wouldn't work without changing FGO at its core.
    Good

    when FGO started, i wanted to see an actual character with depth, which is what TM has always delivered on.

    the basis for FGO itself is flawed IMO. Nasu himself stated as such in an interview.

    "Right now I'm spending half of my time on FGO. Although it's been called "shallow" by people who have supported TYPE-MOON from long ago, it could be seen like that at first as a consequence of widening its scope in order for it to be enjoyed by a wider audience."

    honestly, i would very much prefer that the mentality for Servants was a lot more based on quality rather than quantity, ie, not reusing previous NP ideas as much, not relying on archetypes as much and a lot more focus on character development and progression for the Servants. the logic shouldnt be to flood the game or its narrative with a ton of Servants as quickly as possible.

  11. #7451
    So, in essence, your preference is that it wouldn't have been a gacha game?
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  12. #7452
    Presia messe noce yor tes mea TwilightsCall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    So, in essence, your preference is that it wouldn't have been a gacha game?
    I feel like that is always the objectively correct opinion, regardless of what conversation you're having
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  13. #7453
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    Gacha's a terrible terrible medium for storytelling.

    Singularities and stuff are also bad for an overarching plot also being a condensed quick story since it's introduce everything, establish everything and finish everything immediately without anything really actually tying to the rest of it. There's no connection. Things that happen in one don't really impact the world/rest of the story as a whole and they're extremely and distinctively separated from each other. They may as well be Kingdom Hearts worlds, but with even more bubbling apart from each other.

    The stuff that's for the greater plot is more sort of a guest appearance in the chapters and/or interchangeable. Nothing really changes if you have mister Solomon and his many Pillar Dudes drop in at the end of say, Okeanos or Roma instead of London tbh.
    Last edited by Menwearpink; November 15th, 2020 at 07:49 PM.

  14. #7454
    Comic books, tv series, anime and manga use the same structure since forever. What you are describing is not a gacha thing.
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

  15. #7455
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    stuff like singularities isn't a gacha issue no, and I never said it was. However most stories tend to have more connection between arcs, stories and the world than FGO and singularities + other things. Gacha's a terrible format for storytelling, but this is a problem that FGO has more than other gachas, if those gachas even have it.

    Regardless my point still stands that it hardly is good for a greater plot, setting involvement and such.

    Even if they choose not to make the events of an arc or story effect later parts of the overarching story and work, which honestly they should, they at least have a chance to since it's not something that's deliberately cut off from the rest of the world that'll disappear and so on, or effect progression through the rest of the story.

    Take even say Granblue, or Genshin for something more recent. You have an arc in a island or nations, you have a new story there (whether it's good or not is of course another topic so we won't talk about that here) you can have a plot introduced, resolved and finish things there but.

    Well, you can and do return to those places as part of the story, those places can in fact matter later in the story or have relations with other places you go to, and the events that happen there tie in more. In many stories in games you can visit a new zone or have a new chapter focusing on X without completely cutting away everything of that new chapter or zone with it. You can in fact revisit a place, or have issues and plot points that are sort of shown but not addressed until they become the focus later.

    Sure Singularities have a sort of excuse of "they're still sort of aroundish so we can do interludes and grind materials for gameplay there" but let's be real, everything is done and it's off to the next completely new place to go through next chapter.

  16. #7456
    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    So, in essence, your preference is that it wouldn't have been a gacha game?
    Less servants in the pool

    Even if the drop rates have to be shittier

  17. #7457
    We Want to Protect that Head OverMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kubera View Post
    A more typical TM protagonist or an adult like Romani wouldn't work without changing FGO at its core.
    And the problem with that would be...?

  18. #7458
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menwearpink View Post
    Gacha's a terrible terrible medium for storytelling.

    Singularities and stuff are also bad for an overarching plot also being a condensed quick story since it's introduce everything, establish everything and finish everything immediately without anything really actually tying to the rest of it. There's no connection. Things that happen in one don't really impact the world/rest of the story as a whole and they're extremely and distinctively separated from each other. They may as well be Kingdom Hearts worlds, but with even more bubbling apart from each other.

    The stuff that's for the greater plot is more sort of a guest appearance in the chapters and/or interchangeable. Nothing really changes if you have mister Solomon and his many Pillar Dudes drop in at the end of say, Okeanos or Roma instead of London tbh.
    That's very true for part 1, but I don't see it applying at all to part 2. It feels like you're complaining about a problem that's already solved.

  19. #7459
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    FGO part 2 has solved the storytelling problems of FGO part 1 by the radical innovation of just not telling the story at all
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  20. #7460
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Just gotta complain without care to be right.

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