Things that annoy you in TM

[asterism42]

For the longest time I honestly thought they had Battle Continuation as a class skill because them only having one seemed tragic

[Twelveseal]

Honestly, they probably should have just handed every class three skills. It'd be more interesting that way. Lancers could have a speed boosting skill and riding and it'd be fairly sensible. After all, they're supposed to be the fastest class, Extra Vlad notwithstanding.

[the god of world-0]

I thought riders we're the fastest class.

[Twelveseal]

Unless I'm mistaken, Lancers were supposed to be the fastest. Riders individual mounts and vehicles don't seem to directly factor into it. It's something about pure foot and attack speed.

[pinetree]

Honestly, they probably should have just handed every class three skills. It'd be more interesting that way. Lancers could have a speed boosting skill and riding and it'd be fairly sensible. After all, they're supposed to be the fastest class, Extra Vlad notwithstanding.

Three is too much, I'd say two is fine. Heck, even one is fine if it's iconic enough like Madness Enhancement. The problem is that Lancer's one skill is the generic Magic Resistance.

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I thought riders we're the fastest class.

They definitely call Lancers the fastest in FSN but Twelveseal is right, it's probably more accurate to say agile.

[Skull]

I suspect it's a case of "Agility ≠ Speed" since the stat listed for Servants is "敏捷".

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Oh, sniped.

[Twelveseal]

Nah, three's fine. That gives them as many as Avenger.

[You]

Three is too much, I'd say two is fine. Heck, even one is fine if it's iconic enough like Madness Enhancement. The problem is that Lancer's one skill is the generic Magic Resistance.

Is it any better that only Saber, Lancer, and Caster have an A rank for a stat in their containers?
And Lancer is the only one who gets an A for Agility.

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Nah, three's fine. That gives them as many as Avenger.

Magical energy recovery is a bad class skill.
Avengers should have just Avenger and Oblivion Correction.
The recovery should have been a little line in the Avenger skill.

[pinetree]

Nah, three's fine. That gives them as many as Avenger.

I don't think that's a good thing though.

Is it any better that only Saber, Lancer, and Caster have an A rank for a stat in their containers?
And Lancer is the only one who gets an A for Agility.

You, I honestly don't understand what you're saying here. Even in FSN others had A in Agility: Rider, Herc and Kojirou.

[Leftovers]

You, I honestly don't understand what you're saying here. Even in FSN others had A in Agility: Rider, Herc and Kojirou.

The base class container parameters.

[Twelveseal]

I agree the Self-Replenishment thing is bad as a Class Skill on its own, and that it should have been rolled into Avenger. I can understand why they did it that way, though; by specifying (Mana), they set it up so that other Avengers could have variants of it, or even Servants of other Classes. Avenger, just by its name, is pretty unlikely to land on another Class.

[pinetree]

The base class container parameters.

Oh, right.
Honestly those really don't do anything to make a class unique. Yeah, most Lancers have A in Agility, but there are plenty who don't and Parameters are so particular to each Servant that they don't really work as an iconic defining feature like Class Skills do.

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Not that Class Skills mean anything anymore with FGO making them up by the dozens, giving out anything that'll make the new shiny SSR better in gameplay and changing Personal Skills to Class Skills because they decided one is always passive and the other always active.

[Twelveseal]

Or turning Noble Phantasms into Skills because whatever.

[SpoonyViking]

I've always felt the concept of class skills - and indeed, classes, period - was a bit too gamist and intrusive on the narrative.

[Laserman]

I think it's pretty cool and gives you something to expect.

[Reign]

It's odd. Normally Nasu's tendency to make things 'gamey' - classes, spell ranks, skills, etc.- would bother me. It certainly bothers me in all the isekai series that do it. But I actually find it charming in this setting, and I don't know why.

[Twelveseal]

I think probably because it's the inverse of your usual Isekai explanation. In those, the Class is a power-up for someone who should otherwise be pretty much normal. In Fate, it's more like a limiter; it's the only way you can get someone as powerful as a Heroic Spirit in your service and it's still only a fraction of their true power and potential. Sure, there are exceptions, but mostly the Isekai classes make you into a badass. In Fate, the Servants are so badass the Class is a nerf required for them to even get involved.

This may be a factor in my general dislike of Extraverse, since the Mmon Cell allows for Servants to exceed the power they had in life. Though there's more to it than just that.

[eddyak]

Yeah, in other works it's "Oh I'm a dude but I've got a status window in front of me that lets me do stupid stuff because the author's an unimaginative hack who can't even come up with a slightly interesting powerset, magic system and/or fantasy setting", but here it's "Oh here's a status window because that's a thing most people are comfortable with, that doesn't actually give them abilities, but rather tries to categorise the abilities they already have into a fairly limited format."

It's the difference between "hurr this magic floaty screen is the center of this character's existence and without it they'd be an unappealing, uninteresting and useless turd" and "here's some awesome magic shit attached to a character you'll probably like, and if you want here's some side materials that explain some of it".

[the god of world-0]

Honestly, for some NP's and skills, the explanation of how they work may actually be cooler then the attack itself.

[Twelveseal]

Indeed. Though sometimes the gamist elements there are odd. They hint at an underlying mechanical system that may-or-may-not actually exist. It's part of why I want a tabletop game. I want to actually see the mechanisms behind things like Protection of the Faeries or Fragarach and Gae Bolg's causality reversal, or hell, even just the "logic cancer" of conceptual weapons. If those systems actually exist.

As someone who toys with making game systems, this is especially interesting to me.