Things that annoy you in TM

[Leftovers]

Where was this interview? Because wow.

https://www.4gamer.net/games/266/G026651/20181228023/

今，僕の時間の半分は「FGO」に使っています。古くからTYPE-MOONを応援してくれている人達からは「浅い」と言われてしまうんですが，より広い層に楽しんでもらえる ように間口を広げた結果として，最初はそう見えるかもしれません。
　ただ，実際のところコアの部分は変わっていなくて，遊び続けてもらえば最後には「今までどお りのTYPE-MOONだ」と思ってもらえるような形を目指して作っています。どうか，最後まで付き合ってください。最初 から全力でコアを曝け出していく今までのTYPE-MOONとは感じ方が違うとは思います。でも，根底は同じなんです。

Right now I'm spending half of my time on FGO. Although it's been called "shallow" by people who have supported TYPE-MOON from long ago, it could be seen like that at first as a consequence of widening its scope in order for it to be enjoyed by a wider audience. However, the core essence has in fact remained unchanged, and if you keep playing you'll be able to come out with the impression that "it's the same Type-Moon as ever". Please, play along with me to the end. I believe that it's different from the Type-Moon up to now which would reveal its essence from the beginning. However, the foundation is the same.

Surely he must've been talking about those gaijin over at Beast's Lair.

[Deathhappens]

Fate and Tsuki did a pretty good job even though all you ever see of them is a porn still, bad end and the occasional battle shot.

Uhh, in both cases we had a direct in to the character's mind. We didn't need to observe Shirou to know how he felt about Saber because his inner dialogue wouldn't shut up about it whenever he looked at her.

[weeblord]

Fujimaru has narration. Once in Shimousa, once in Gotterdamerung and twice in Yuga Kshehtra. And only the first YK one is any good.

Also once in some Arthur thing when theyre like NOOOOO IM CHASED BY A MONSTER I DONT KNOW WHICH MYSTIC CODE IM WEARING DOES IT HAVE GANDR??????

[asterism42]

FGO has some good plot beats, but Fujimaru is not one of them.

Honestly, if it were being written as, like, a VN or a book or something, Mash would almost certainly be the main character.

[Deathhappens]

FGO has some good plot beats, but Fujimaru is not one of them.

Honestly, if it were being written as, like, a VN or a book or something, Mash would almost certainly be the main character.

Well why not? She's the one who gets consistent internal narration. She's the one who undergoes actual character development. Rewriting FGO to star Mash Kyrielight is actually possible.

[mami-kouga]

Also once in some Arthur thing when theyre like NOOOOO IM CHASED BY A MONSTER I DONT KNOW WHICH MYSTIC CODE IM WEARING DOES IT HAVE GANDR??????

You mean Arthur's trial quest? (Not that there are a lot of stuff Arthur features in anyway)

Sakurai seems to enjoy going full visual novel whenever she can it seems. That and dropping Dantes into the story

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Well why not? She's the one who gets consistent internal narration. She's the one who undergoes actual character development. Rewriting FGO to star Mash Kyrielight is actually possible.

Doesn't FGO already star Mash anyway? Though she can't straight up replace Guda's role in the story (because no matter how non existent their personality is, the story works mostly by making those two a duo)

[the god of world-0]

The "Mash blocks Ars Almadel Solomonis" Scene doesn't work if there is no one else behind her. (You also end up with no one else to fistfight Solomon after it)

Blank slate or not, Guda does enough in the plot for him no not be replaceable. Plus, there are times where Mash just straight up isn't with him, Like Prison Tower or the entirety of EoR.

[Laserman]

A problem is also we don’t actually see the MC do much, or some may even say, anything at all. So saying that they’re emotional think things or are effected by things doesn’t really matter when you don’t see the effects of that upon their conduct or their performance.

That can be said about everything that has to do with that game, which is a shame.
That leads back to one of my problems with it in general.

[Reign]

FGO has some good plot beats, but Fujimaru is not one of them.

Honestly, if it were being written as, like, a VN or a book or something, Mash would almost certainly be the main character.

I'd argue that Mash is absolutely the main character even as-is, while Fujimaru is the perspective character. Like Yuna and Tidus in FF10.

[Menwearpink]

The "Mash blocks Ars Almadel Solomonis" Scene doesn't work if there is no one else behind her. (You also end up with no one else to fistfight Solomon after it)

Blank slate or not, Guda does enough in the plot for him no not be replaceable. Plus, there are times where Mash just straight up isn't with him, Like Prison Tower or the entirety of EoR.

The problem lies in that nothing of that requires it be Guda. It can be anyone really as long as they're some random milquetoast inoffensive person that doesn't have strong enough convictions, beliefs or expertise that they go about things differently, and somehow also have the plot-given capability of being beloved by everyone just because.

Yes, if you just took out Guda things would be different. But nothing about Guda's actions can be said to be a result of Guda being a character or participant of any note really.

I'd argue that Mash is absolutely the main character even as-is, while Fujimaru is the perspective character. Like Yuna and Tidus in FF10.

I mean Tidus is the actual main character to be fair. Brought in by the Fayth and dad to break Spira out of its cycle of death and all that and also going "No we shouldn't go along with this" to everyone else and also encouraging people in his dumb zany pro water football player ways.

That said I feel Mashu may as well be the actual perspective character in a way as well considering we get more things filtered through her than through Guda.

[the god of world-0]

I mean, that's kind of a long list of qualifications. We know that just "anyone" wouldn't cut it, Kirsch proved that.

[Reign]

I mean Tidus is the actual main character to be fair. Brought in by the Fayth and dad to break Spira out of its cycle of death and all that and also going "No we shouldn't go along with this" to everyone else and also encouraging people in his dumb zany pro water football player ways.

That said I feel Mashu may as well be the actual perspective character in a way as well considering we get more things filtered through her than through Guda.

Like Ashe and Vaan in FF12 then. My point is all the plot development and character development revolves around her, especially in part 1 but even into Lostbelt what with her actually knowing the Crypters before all this. By all means she's the main character and Fujimaru is the lense through which the audience views her story.

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Note that by saying this I'm not saying Fujimaru being a blank face is a good thing just I wouldn't call him the protagonist.

[OverMaster]

I mean, that's kind of a long list of qualifications. We know that just "anyone" wouldn't cut it, Kirsch proved that.

Not anyone can be a complete nobody.

That's... actually one of the deepest things Type-Moon has ever posited, actually, and I'm sure it wasn't even on purpose.

[Menwearpink]

No one in life can be a complete nobody. Everyone has convictions, beliefs, fears, dislikes, tastes. PASTS

The fact that you can say "I wouldn't do X that Guda does or would do" is a good thing. IT means you're your own person.

The fact that Guda isn't a 100% mesh with you doesn't mean they're not a self-insert or blank lack of character. They're meant to appeal and somewhat fit with everyone who ever plays the game after all. He's no more a character than random interchangeable LN protagonist self insert guy and so on.

[OverMaster]

They're meant to appeal and somewhat fit with everyone who ever plays the game after all. He's no more a character than random interchangeable LN protagonist self insert guy and so on.

That's a false and dishonest equivalence because anyone who isn't a complete self absorbed sociopath can empathize to some degree or another with a well written character who isn't just a hollow skin for you to inhabit in your thoughts.

It's just making the character a shallow shell for the sake of something that isn't even necessary, although given how asocially selfish most hardcore Japanese otaku can get... still, that's not behavior or a mindset that should be enabled. But hey, it makes money regardless, so I guess TM and DW just shrug and do their best Mr. Krab impression.

Also, most of those other characters are crap too, that's still damning by association.

[Menwearpink]

Being able to empathize with a char and a character designed to be "Literally Me" where you fill i blanks with yourself are different matters so I don't agree.

[Namelesss]

FGO has some good plot beats, but Fujimaru is not one of them.

Honestly, if it were being written as, like, a VN or a book or something, Mash would almost certainly be the main character.

Mash is the main character in FGO.

I always knew there was something more to this character ever since they revealed her concept.

Gudako for the win.

>while Fujimaru is the perspective character. Like Yuna and Tidus in FF10.

Wow, that's a pretty good comparison right there. AH HA HA HA HA.

>Right now I'm spending half of my time on FGO. Although it's been called "shallow" by people who have supported TYPE-MOON from long ago, it could be seen like that at first as a consequence of widening its scope in order for it to be enjoyed by a wider audience. However, the core essence has in fact remained unchanged, and if you keep playing you'll be able to come out with the impression that "it's the same Type-Moon as ever". Please, play along with me to the end. I believe that it's different from the Type-Moon up to now which would reveal its essence from the beginning. However, the foundation is the same.

Boy oh boy, if there was the number one thing that annoyed me in TM. It would be this right here.

[the god of world-0]

I guess mash being the main character works for part one, but it's kind of hard to say she is the main character in EoR

[TheSkipRow]

I guess mash being the main character works for part one, but it's kind of hard to say she is the main character in EoR

EoR is like that part in FF7 where Cid takes over while Cloud is busy being braindead.

[SpoonyViking]

You can absolutely have a viewpoint character who mostly only reacts to outside factors - see "Moby Dick" 's Ishmael* for an example -, but the plot and other characters need to pick up the slack in some way.

* Which you absolutely should, because it's a great novel, warts and all.

I'd argue the main failing in GO's writing is that too much of it relies on Fujimaru specifically engaging with the events and people around them, and they're too much of a blank slate for that to work. I don't think it's coincidence that the chapter that is widely considered the best one, Camelot, relies much more on the other characters than on the supposed protagonist to keep the story engaging for the reader.