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Thread: Rin Tohsaka, bisexual or straight?

  1. #1

    Rin Tohsaka, bisexual or straight?

    Hi Beast Lair Community =P
    I would like to start a discussion discussion what is Rin Tohsaka. I've read several forums and the options vary between bixexual, bisexual leaning towards males, bi-curious and straight. I would also like to affront this topic in all 3 routes (though of course the fate H scene and unlimited blade works good ending are likely to receive more attention).

    Well, I will start with my opinion. I think Rin Tohsaka is straight (or bi-curious at most). The reason some people say it she's bisexual is mainly because of the H-scene in the fate route. I'll state some of the misgivings I have towards this scene and why to me it doesn't make Rin bisexual:

    First of all, the author Nasu didn't write that scene. As noted in the complete materials, Nasu didn't actually write the script for the fate sex scene.

    1.Why didn't Rin tell Shirou about mana transfer earlier? There's absolutely no valid reason. Transferring mana would save Saber's life (and before the whole scene Rin had told Shirou Saber would most likely disappear due to lack of mana and gave him no answer when he asked if she could be saved), so it would be logical to inform him of such possibility as early as possible.
    However, if mana transfer involved sex, she had a very good reason not to tell him about it. She had feelings for Shirou, so she definitely didn't want him to have sex with Saber, unless it was absolutely unavoidable, causing either Rin or Shirou to die.

    2. The whole scene seems like pointless fanservice. The fact they went for the H to give mana to saber instead of making Rin the master of Saber and let her get lots of mana still baffles me after all this years.

    3. It is a life-or-death scene in which Rin is forced to have sex with saber and enjoys it. The question would be be, does it make her bisexual? When 2 girls in an eroge touch each other and enjoy it then they’re bi?
    I don’t think so. I strongly believe the result would have been the same with every single heroine in the game. It’s an eroge and I’ve read a few VNs where 2 straight girls enjoy sex together. I’ve also watched even more hentai (not that different from eroge) in which straight girls (usually sisters) that love the same dude end up having sex together and enjoy it very much. In my opinion it was mainly fanservice for an eroge game, not to mention the newer versions of Realta Nua completely remove that scene, making it non-existent.
    So basically, It's not a threesome if she's there touching saber with a bored expression. This is an eroge, there is no fucking way a girl can touch another and don't make it seem it's glorius, what kind of a H-scene would it be otherwise?
    Also, Sakura got a similar treatment in Heaven's Feel while watching Rin get raped (she got turned on by her own sister and maybe it was faservice for the H-scene. There's no need to assume Sakura's bi, it could just be Nasu's way of making H-scenes (all 3 heroines had a sexual experience between themselves after all).

    4. Shirou was there in the whole scene (she even kisses him for absolutely no reason before starting "preparing" saber). Rin knows Shirou's watching and she watches them have sex afterwards. Her arousal may be in part due to Shirou.

    Now I'll state why I think the anime is just Rin X Shirou:

    - Nasu said the anime occurs in a different universe with different laws. Mana transfer, as shown in episode 20, doesn’t happen through sex. Things can't be taken from the Nasuverse cause it doesn’t apply to this universe. This universe uses Realta Nua method.

    We can’t assume Rin is even bi-curious either as we can’t take anything from other routes given this is a completely different universe and other routes would happen in a different way as well.

    Nasu said that in the anime the ones in a relationship are Rin and Shirou. The anime shows Rin is straight here. She is 100% focused on Shirou as a love partner. Then again, you can’t take any info from other routes cause this is a different universe with different rules and even the characters are different. In other routes there would be no mana transfer through sex and given Rin’s behaviour
    Nasu also said the anime changes were relevant and that actions speak. Now, let’s see some of those changes just on the 7 minute (without credits) OVA.

    1. In the VN when talking about the mana transfer all 3 of them are together. Shirou asks what his mana boost will be like and Saber says she wants to know as well how Shirou will boost mana. Rin blushes a lot.

    In the anime this is a private conversation between Shirou and Rin. Saber just stands 20 meters away looking into blank space.
    How do I interpret this?: They’re having a private conversation and Saber knows that. Them being together means it’s just the 2 of them in love related matters. Saber is an outsider there, and waits for them to finish.

    2. In the VN Rin pulls saber (last CG). In the anime she grabs Shirou’s arm with both her arms, pulling him with one arm afterwards. Again, this shows Rin and Shirou are the happy couple and removes possible doubts.

    Now I'll state why I think the UBW good ending is Shirou's harem and Rin doesn't do Saber (regardless of Rin's sexuality).

    1. Saber:

    Shirou and Rin love each other so whoever saber likes will be the deciding factor. In a harem several people have feelings for someone. Who does saber like?

    There is one whole route dedicated to the love between Shirou and Arturia. In "the last episode" saber waits for thousands of years for Shirou and cries when she sees him.
    In the UBW anime Rin says saber is way to dedicated to Shirou. In episode 23 saber says "Shirou, you are still my master", in episode 24 before dying saber says "I am happy because Shirou has Rin". In the V.N saber flirts with Shirou as Rin states and she says she stays just for him.
    If we look the other way we'll see that after Rin is forced to have sex with saber in the fate route H-scene saber's mind is 100% set on Shirou, it's as if nothing ever happened with Rin. This proves that no matter what Rin does, saber never sees Rin as a love interest.
    In the good ending the bond between Shirou and saber is even stronger than that of the true ending, strong enough for saber to kill Rin while destroying the Grail without the need of a command seal, although that didn't happen as Archer saved Rin in the last second.
    So we have a saber class servant that willingly states "Shirou, you are still my master" (episode 23) while having another master, she willingly almost kills her real master and in the visual novel after Rin saves her she flirts with her master's boyfriend. The only difference between UBW true and good endings is that in the Good ending Shirou gives points to saber. That's the reason she wishes to stay, she feels Shirou really cares for him in the good ending because of the increased affection that Shirou has for her.

    In Fate Hollow Ataraxia (the sequel to the VN) eclipse scenes we are shown that Heaven's Feel is Shirou's harem because Rider is fucking him.
    The eclipse/hentai scenes are quite different though from the actual game. They aren't part of Fate Hollow Ataraxia. They really are a fully-fledged continuations of the original game endings as they are written to literally continue them. They are something like a plus and are clearly written to continue FSN endings (with the exception of Caren, which takes place in the actual game). Nasu made a confirmation of them being canon.

    The Rider scene happens after HF. Basically it is revealed that Rider falls in love with Shirou and likes meeting him to have sex with him. In her eclipse scene she confesses she loves him. Rider says she thinks about him when she's alone but she feels bad about Sakura.
    Is it something new? Not really, what happened is that we got a confirmation. Remember when Rider said she is sucking regularly someone's blood and that she can't let Sakura Know? That is mentioned somewhere at the end of Heaven's Feel in the original game. She thought that after 2 years living together with Shirou and Sakura. They're the only ones living together in the Emiya house (Rin lives in London). So it has to be Shirou as she thinks Sakura must not know and she does it regularly. And how does Rider suck blood? She just bites you unless you're Shirou. In Heaven's Feel Route She finds Shirou so juicy she has sex with him as well. The rest of the people just got the bite.

    There is another scene which is very interesting, the saber scene. In the game saber comes from the UBW good ending universe. Her eclipse scene is her going inside the bathroom while Shirou is bathing. Shirou tells her to wait but she tells him not to wrorry, she undresses and bathes with him. After a while Shirou gets turned on and he says he's unable to resist his instincts, so he they have sex. Saber was very happy Shirou would allow her to make love to him.
    Unlike Rider, it isn't so clear this will happen in the UBW good ending but knowing Nasu already gave him a harem in Heaven's Feel and the way UBW good end happened I'd say there's a big chance of that happening there.

    Then as I see it Saber's hentai scene most likely happens after UBW good ending. It can't be the fate route as the first time Shirou and Saber have sex alone is the night before she dies, where he was so nervous he didn't even know what to do. There aren't more times to have sex as she dies afterwards. Saber in Fate Hollow comes from UBW good ending. The way the H-scene occurs makes it seem they're not in a formal relationship (Saber loves Shirou but it seems similar to the Rider scene where she can't bear it any longer and goes to meet him when she finds some opportunity) and that Saber is fine and isn't gonna die. It shouldn't come as a surprise though. In UBW Good ending Nasu hints strongly Shirou is gonna have sex with Saber. Some hints are that Shirou's magical energy (semen) is needed to maintain saber as Rin's energy isn't enough, Saber says in the VN she's staying for him, Rin tells saber not to flirt with him and to stop looking at each other for so long. Basically one of the typical harem endings in a porn game. There are no hints of Rin and Saber having sex in Unlimited good ending as nothing is ever hinted/mentioned in either the eclipse scenes or the game Ataraxia itself that may point out they ever have a sexual relationship over there. Also, Rin provides magic to Saber thanks to her link and no sex is needed as she's an experienced magi.

    I've touched both scenes (Rider and Saber) because they are quite similar. Unlike Rin and Sakura, Rider and Saber have to go meet their man under more rare circumstances as they aren't actually dating him. On the other hand, Rin and Sakura are in a formal relationship with Shirou as their scenes show. Also, considering that Rider "betrays" her master Sakura (for whom she would do anything and is very devoted to her) as HF's route suggests (I explained it before) and the eclipse scene confirms, it would make no sense for saber not to do the same in the good ending. She's just as in love as Rider (if not more). By the end of UBW good ending she flirts with Shirou and looks at him for a while with a love expression, something Rin doesn't miss. The fact that she wants to stay only when Shirou gives her love points (visual novel system) is another hint. Seriously, even if Shirou didn't have to give Saber mana as he does she would still pursue Shirou, just like Rider does (and no mana is needed in Rider's case).

    Notice that having a harem is what Nasu always does for Shirou (with the exception of the Fate Route, where in the "last episode" in Realta Nua it is revealed he just gets saber).
    In UBW true ending Lluvia likes him very much and Nasu mentioned they will have adventures even after graduation; in UBW good ending saber loves him (VN, Rin tells them not to flirt); In Heaven's Feel Rider loves him (amazing love confession in Ataraxia); In Ataraxia he gets every single heroine plus Caren and Bazett, it's the ultimate harem in the true ending.

    2. Saber is Rin's servant.

    If Rin had set saber free or given her back to Shirou, Rin would have had to have sex with Saber out of necessity to give her mana (as there would be no master- servant relationship that would be the only way). Now, since saber and Rin maintained their pact Rin has no need to have sex with her (as she supplies mana constantly thanks to her immense magical knowledge) and it would be Shirou that comes to be in a enviable position as his “seed” would be needed to maintain the girls (either through Rin or directly to saber if that wasn’t enough).
    The situation between Rin and Saber is the same one as Sakura-Rider in Heaven's Feel true ending and they don't have sex (because it's not necessary thanks to the master-servant link)

    3. Rin loves Shirou a lot.

    In Fate Hollow Ataraxia (sequel to the VN) she just wants to be a couple with Shirou [like when Rin invites Shirou to go to her private pool in her house. Shirou says he's gonna go tell Saber and Rin gets super mad. She tells him it's a couple's date, so just the 2 of them will go]. In the anime [episode 11] all 3 of them go out together, but that wasn't even close to a real date. Rin loves Sakura very much [you how much if you read Heaven's Feel] and at that time Rin still believed he was gonna end up with Sakura. Later in the VN Shirou confesses his love for Rin, but before that she barely even considered going out with him.
    At the end of post 21 (page 2 of this thread) I link 2 very good examples of this that are a must-watch to understand Rin better.

    Fate Hollow Ataraxia also shows a glimpse of future Rin (minutes 9-16 of the youtube video linked after this paragraph). She's no longer tsundere, she's just lovestruck. At some point future Rin says: Rather than becoming happy together, I will, with no questions asked, and more than anyone else, give him happiness. It also raises more reasons for Rin to save Saber in the good ending Sunny Days. In the VN in order to reach that ending Shirou has to give Saber at least 4 points, which means he cares about her a lot more than in the true ending. In the VN Rin says to Shirou "you are too kind to Saber" and in the good ending she says "you want her to stay, so it's alright". She also says both of them will be training Shirou, so it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think Shirou's happiness plays a big role in Rin saving Saber in the good ending, especially if we consider other references: in the fate route once she realises he's fallen in love with saber and there's no way it's gonna change she helps him plan a date with her because that's what makes Shirou happy. She couldn't save her at the end cause she was severely injured and wasn't there; the very setting in Fate Hollow is that saber is dead and Shirou's sad because of that. Rin is able to resurrect her and she gives her to Shirou (Shirou and Saber weren'teven dating, but she gives her to him because it makes him happy. Upon seing Saber Shirou has tears in his eyes. Rin goes to London alone as Shirou and her aren't datingg. Shirou becomes Saber's master this time (and it remains in the true ending) as in this setting for different reasons there is no need to give her mana so he can manage alone without help.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9thish4tmk4

    4. Rin's undeniable harem would have been Shirou- Rin - Archer, but Archer didn't accept.

    One more thing to consider is that she asks archer to remain in this world. This happens in both the good and true ending (right before the good ending would come archer's scene). Think that if archer had accepted Rin's proposal both the true and happy endings would be the same.

    A) The true ending becomes Rin-Archer-Shirou
    B) The good ending becomes Rin-Archer-Shirou

    By asking archer to stay afterwards saber would have left this world had archer accepted (there's not enough mana for both of them and even Rin knows saber isn't selfish to stay that way, by asking archer she's in a way betraying saber, that's why she thinks "I know I shouldn't ask" (but she does ask...) and archer says "I do not know if you will keep your contract with saber, but I am nor qualified for that")
    These quotes are taken from the VN.
    In page 2 of this thread I add new arguments in post 21. Post 39 also focuses on the relationship between Rin and Archer in the true ending. Rin still continues thinking about him even after 2 years have passed. This should happen in the good ending as well as the final farewell happens in both endings.

    If we move onto Heaven's Feel Rin thinks something very interesting after returning to the Emiya House (after spending 1 year in London): I've been going out with boys but whenever I am with them I can't concentrate cause that fool's face appears in my mind. Am I in love with him?
    In this route Rin and Shirou didn't have any romance moments, yet she thinks about Shirou, not Saber, Rider... (not to mention she says she's been going out with boys, not girls).
    Last edited by lordbeerus; March 28th, 2017 at 08:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Last edited by touka; October 23rd, 2016 at 02:29 PM.

  3. #3
    endless recursion

  4. #4
    https://youtu.be/W3KYx1WDqBw Raylen Cypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by touka View Post
    That one's been closed.
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    How dare you she's a married woman
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    No but why ask him to pull out right before the end tbh
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    Queen of Love and Beauty GhostDIGIT's Avatar
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    these damn newbies
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  7. #7
    Sorry, I didn't know. In case someone is wondering, I'm not that guy (you check cookies, IP or whatever). Also, I want to be part of this community and I already said I'm sorry, so please no stuff like the last post.

  8. #8
    It's Magikewl~ Magikewl's Avatar
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    Does this sort of thing happen often?

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    Unfortunately, yeah.
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    Just watch KNK, read fate and tsuki then just never bother with another nasu thing again but continue to use BL regardless.

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  10. #10
    https://youtu.be/W3KYx1WDqBw Raylen Cypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordbeerus View Post
    Also, I want to be part of this community and I already said I'm sorry, so please no stuff like the last post.
    Either you haven't lurked enough, are new to the internet, or honest to god trying to make a good first impression, you kinda chose a very finicky subject.

    The last guy who tried this was a weird one (the closed thread linked from before) and another before that was done with the intent to get back at someone.
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    How dare you she's a married woman
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    No but why ask him to pull out right before the end tbh
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordbeerus View Post
    Sorry, I didn't know. In case someone is wondering, I'm not that guy (you check cookies, IP or whatever). Also, I want to be part of this community and I already said I'm sorry, so please no stuff like the last post.
    I'm sorry, it's just that something like this is kind of a very strange thing to open your posts with.
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    there aren't enough gun emojis in the thousandfold trichiliocosm for this shit


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  12. #12
    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Saber fucked your wife OP.
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    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


  13. #13
    Don't stop beatin', don't stop beatin', don't stop beating'em up RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Why do these weird threads keep popping up? Honestly, it's a little creepy how much thought some people put into this...

    If you want a serious answer, then I'm pretty sure getting aroused from touching another girl makes Rin a little bit bisexual just by definition. The fact that it's a trope so common to Eroge doesn't really change anything in that regard (just means that in such works, pretty much every girl is a little bit bi when convenient). However, if you ignore the H-scene then the whole thing pretty much becomes null since that's the main evidence (far as I know) for her showing any attraction to woman in that way (beyond heroic adoration like in her first encounter with Saber). In Realta Nua or the anime adaptations there's no direct evidence one way or the other so you can really head-canon it any way you want.

    Basically, if you take into account the H-scene she is (at least a bit). If you don't... then whatever you want, I guess? Not really a big deal.

  14. #14
    Rin Tohsaka pleases historical warrior women for mana.

  15. #15
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoydGolden View Post
    However, if you ignore the H-scene then the whole thing pretty much becomes null since that's the main evidence (far as I know) for her showing any attraction to woman in that way (beyond heroic adoration like in her first encounter with Saber).
    Well, there's that bit at the end of HF with Rider, depending on your interpretation.
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    紅魔|吸血鬼 Frostyvale's Avatar
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    Hey OP, you're asking an important question here. Don't let the normies get you down.

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    lol, "normie".
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    In relation to OP, who isn't?

  19. #19
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AvengerEmiya's Avatar
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    Riesbyfe is probably the only non-Bi female in Nasuverse.
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  20. #20
    @Mc Chaos

    I did notice something, but it was so vague. Another reason why I didn't consider it relevant was because she had already spent 1 year with Rider and the others (before going 1 year to London). If they were something more than friends then why just go out with boys in London? (because she would know she's bi) Why just think about Shirou in London and that she may indeed love him?

    This is only one reason, there are many more reasons that would say Rin and Rider are just friends

    1. Rin is NOT living with Shirou, Sakura and Rider. We don't know if she's ever gonna live with them or how many years it would take in that case. For all we know Shirou, Sakura and Rider could always live in the Emiya house.

    2. At the end of Heaven's Feel we See Shirou X Rider:

    "Um, you're not drinking blood without telling her, are you?"
    I ask her in a whisper"

    ""There is no need to worry. I will never allow Sakura to know such a thing."

    Rin is basically asking: Rider, are you fucking Shirou as you've done before?
    Rider answers: Yes, I'm most certainly fucking him, but don't worry, I won't let Sakura know.

    In Fate Hollow's eclipse scene we get a confirmation of this. Rider goes to Shirou's room sometimes to make love to him and suck a bit of his blood. We also get a love confession from Rider. She says that she thinks about Shirou when she's alone and she says his name outloud and that she loves him. She also says she feels bad (because of Sakura) because it's wrong to be doing that.
    Rider is very considerate. She doesn't want to disturb Sakura's relationship with Shirou, but she also can't stand being around the man she loves and do nothing so she makes sure they don't realize it. She cheats, but in a nice way

    Some of things Rder says in her eclipse scene (The image of Sakura she creates speaks to her as if it were her heart):

    "She dislikes herself and tried to forget. And just like that she became dishonest"
    "When you and me are alone, you always nonchalantly ask me what did Shirou do today?"
    "You've actually wanted to go on a date with him behind my back, haven't you. Moreover, as if you're a bit worried about things like gaving cute clothes that will please senpai, you look at fashion catalogs alone or try to choose accessories to wear"
    "You like him that much you can't stand it"
    "You start aching while listening to Senpai's voice from tthe shadow of the hallway, and you rub yourself down there"
    "You confort yourself alone while buried in Senpai's futon"
    "Even though you crave senpai you endure it and whisper "Shirou, I want you too"

    Rider says in between sobs and tears: "Stop, please stop already, this is wrong, as if I ------- could have... that normal kind of love. Rider weeps while I hold her"

    "When alone you whisper "Shirou". Even if you force yousrself not to say it, you mumble it to yourself. You are so cute Rider"

    Rider answers: "I am not something cute. I have had enough of this part of me, I hate it, stop it. He will be disappointed in a woman like me"

    "Rider, who are you afraid to disappoint? All of the lies have already come out into the open"
    "Sakura asks with a gentle smile" (to Shirou): "Please be affectioante with her. It's a request from me. If Rider can't find happiness neither can I. Take good care of Rider, I alone can't make her happy".

    As you can see it is the same way with Rin. When she's in London (and she's there all the time but a week yearly ever since she joined the Clock Tower) she thinks about Shirou and notices she loves him, as stated by her. Just like Rider, not having him also makes Rin feel bad and a bit depressed. She was very happy with Shirou in the Clock Tower in UBW true ending. Now in Heaven's Feel she's not exactly happy there and she thinks about Shirou even though they didn't have any romantic moments in this route.
    She also feels nervous when she sees him.

    3. Nasu said he's written Rin in a different way as compared to that of Saber or other girls considering "She also has a sort of pride in the fact that she's a beautiful girl."

    This is also quite relevant. Saber is very beautiful as stated from the very beginning. The first encounter with Saber would be due to this (after that Rin says she feels bad cause she's been surpassed). There is a scene in Heaven's Feel where she also notices Rider's beauty. In another scene in Fate Hollow she feels bad because she wanted to surprise Shirou with her beauty and Rider appears and according to her she ruins the moment as she's more beautiful. Shirou then conforts her saying she's the only girl for him and she feels better.
    Nasu claimed he's written Rin this way, as opposed to other girls. However, he's never said he's written her bisexual. He could have if he wanted to.

    Furthermore, Rider's beauty should not be understimated. She is the Goddess Medusa, Cursed by Athena because she was the most beautiful, cause of envy and admiration even among Goddesses. Her hair, features... Everything's perfect.

    Changing the topic, at some time in Heaven's Feel (that leads to the true ending) Rin loses her magical energy and needs to replenish it. For that purpose she is taken to her house. Kirei explains the process somewhere when talking to Shirou:

    "You only had your energy taken away, but she had her magical energy taken away. It would normally take seven days to recover, but the land of Tohsaka is good for her.
    If all goes well, she should regain consciousness by tomorrow afternoon."

    "No. The soil of that land is special. It is a ley line that is said to have been home to vampires. Rin is her family's heir, so she will be back to her impudent self if I keep her buried for a day."

    Basically, her magic crest sucks magical energy from that land, so she has to be taken there to recover her mana.

    @Roygolden

    As noted in the complete materials, Nasu didn't write the script for the fate sex scene.

    I would also answer with the first 1-4 arguments in my first post.
    It's like this: Watching the whole VN as a whole, to me she's straight if we consider that scene as mere fanservice and done for the sake of having a good H-scene (or the the anime and Realta Nua version, which removes that scene). Now, if we believe that scene is less fanservice than it appears to be (even though the whole situation is foolish, Rin should have become Saber's master as I mentioned before and other weird stuff) to me she would be either straight or bi-curious. Eroge and hentai scenes are meant to be this way and I've read enough material (in which because of a forced circumstance or to please the main character 2 straight girls have sex and enjoy it) to think she might still be straight even after that. Also, Sakura got a similar treatment in Heaven's Feel while watching Rin get raped (Sakura got turned on). There's no need to assume Sakura's bi, it could just be Nasu's way of making H-scenes (all 3 heroines had a sexual experience between themselves after all). I don't want to repeat what I said in my first post so I'll leave it there.
    I see your point though, there's nothing certain but it allows to fantasize beyond that point

    This is off-topic but I will also say why I believe in real life getting turned on by touching another female doesn't necessarily mean you're not straight.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a6723276.html

    Basically, In the study, some 300 women were shown sexually provocative videos of attractive women. Researchers claim that most female participants, including those who identified as heterosexual, became sexually aroused in response to images of them.
    All men that said they're straight were not sexually aroused by men though.
    "Even though the majority of women identify as straight, our research clearly demonstrates that when it comes to what turns them on, they are either bisexual or gay, but never straight.”

    Many women answered this study (and others) saying it doesn't mean they're not straight, it's just that women's sexuality is flexible. According to some women whether you're bi or not would depend on whether you would commit to a romantic relationship with anoher female or not (so it's not so much about being turned on but having romantic feelings and comitting to a love relationship).
    Other women even said they had crushes on other women in their teens but it was just a face.
    For example, a girl said this in an article:

    "A study like this doesn’t help anyone understand anything. But even more importantly, our constant cultural chatter about sex and sexual preference is blinding us to the bigger picture that human beings are more complex than their genitals (or dilated pupils).
    So maybe the folks over at Essex could put their time, energy and money to better use by studying the consequences of a culture that tries to condition people into believing their sex organs are the most interesting and valuable part about them"

    Anyways, back to topic. Adding arguments to my original post I'd say that Rin doesn't treat Shirou and saber the same way. Apart from UBW good ending in which she lets her live [and let's not forget that's the ending where Shirou shows a lot of feelings towards saver expressed by giving her more points. Rin notices it so a reason for Rin saving her in that ending might be that].

    In the rest of visual novel and sequel the treatment is quite different and shows she's straight in my opinion:


    1. At almost the very beginning of the VN the guy she loves is dying by Lancer's attack. She uses her most precious possession, the jewel passed down through generations in the Toshaka family, capable of almost any miracle, even healing you completely if you're on the verge of death and don't have any organs left. It just makes them grow back!
    Do you remember the 10 jewels she uses in the war? Well, she dedicated 10 years to them and the they aren't even a shadow of the previous one, the treasure her father gave her and as she called it: My secret weapon.

    2. Dead end 1. When shirou says she won't participate in the war, Rin instead of thinking "Yay!!! Now I can have Saber!" she maintains the angriest face she's even shown in the VN.

    3. Dead end 2. She literally dies for Shirou. Saber has been defeated and one blow will kill her. Rin then says "Let's run Shirou" [aka I prefer saber dying over Shirou]. Shirou does care for saber though, and protects her. However, if he were to listen to Rin and run wit her [dead end 2] Berserker would attack Shirou. Does Rin abandon Shirou like she did with saber? No, she puts her body in between them to protect him, dying instantly [Her father must've choked even in death when that happened]

    4. After Berserker's first attack Shirou is severely injured for saving Saber. Rin spends all night taking care of him [not the also super wounded saber]. Look at how much she's done so far and she haven't even proposed the cooperation yet.

    5. Shirou has been captured by Illya. Saber is but a powerless shell after fighting with Rider. Archer tells Rin not to go to save him [and well said indeed. By going there to save his sweetie she's condemning everyone to death as at that point archer can't match Berserker alone. It is what would have happened hadn't Shirou used his extraordinary projection. So instead of thinking: Yay!!! I can have saber! she chooses death.

    6. Illya has caught up to them. Rin tells saber [powerless] and Shirou to run. Later on Saber can't continue running. Every second counts so she tells Shirou to abandon her [yet again, she abandons saber and tries to save Shirou]
    When he tells her he will carry her she waits for him.
    She even loses speed to match his.

    7. The sex scene. Why didn't she tell Shirou about mana transfer earlier? There's absolutely no valid reason. Transferring mana would save Saber's life [and before the whole scene Rin had told Shirou Saber would most likely disappear due to lack of mana and gave him no answer when he asked if she could be saved].
    However, if mana transfer involved sex, she had a very good reason not to tell him about it. She had feelings for Shirou, so she definitely didn't want him to have sex with Saber, unless it was absolutely unavoidable, causing either Rin or Shirou to die.

    8. In UBW good ending Rin asks Archer to stay as well. What would happen if he accepted? Would Saber stay? Would there really be enough mana for both of them? I believe saber would have died then.
    ...


    Apart from my previous statements regarding the original VN, Fate Hollow Ataraxia [sequel] continues that trend.

    So I'd say she doesn't like her that way. There are scenes that say so too in my opinion, like:

    1. Fate Hollow Ataraxia. link

    Minute 5:42
    Watch her reaction once Shirou says: "Am I allowed to bring Saber along?"
    Minute 12:11: "My pool is for you and you only..."

    The whole scene up to minute 18 [scene 1] is very good. She crearly discards saber and blatantly tells Shirou they're the ones in a relationship and she certainly doesn't appear to like saber that way.

    2. link

    Minute 14:31: "This is something I can only ask of you"

    Minute 15:14: "Come on, you're the only one I can really ask for something like this. It would be awkward with saber..."
    Last edited by lordbeerus; March 28th, 2017 at 08:16 AM.

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