Badass Versus Thread

[8000]

p good actually
Siegfried keeps the flat B defense.
but doesn't get the additional defense boosts.

I'm not clear, is it a defense equal to B rank NPs or B rank regular attacks?

Anyway I'm pretty sure George would've had the advantage over Siegfried in the original Apo. Although if AoF takes a B rank NP chunk out of anti-dragon attacks George might not be able to get through it. If it's only B rank regular attacks, George is the clear winner because he can block/tank everything Siegfried has while the reverse isn't true.

[castor212]

i guess than the question is whether Very Much Stakes, Like, Very Much of It can withstand Multiple Independently Targetable Reentry Vehicle, Spear Version

[You]

I'm not clear, is it a defense equal to B rank NPs or B rank regular attacks?

yeah never says

my guess is B rank regular attacks otherwise Karna wouldn't be able to get through with his A equiv attacks

[8000]

yeah never says

my guess is B rank regular attacks otherwise Karna wouldn't be able to get through with his A equiv attacks

Well that's against regular attacks which is different, we know it only takes a B rank deduction from those. I'm wondering about the B rank deduction from dragon killing NPs, if it's on the regular attack or NP ranking scale.

[castor212]

yeah never says

my guess is B rank regular attacks otherwise Karna wouldn't be able to get through with his A equiv attacks

yknow i had these weird conclusion for a while

what if its both

what if B value normal attack against normal attacks and change to B value NP attack against NP

just that if its B value normal attack against NP then AoF is sooooo less impressive, which i dont think is the direction theyre going

[8000]

what if B value normal attack against normal attacks and change to B value NP attack against NP

I thought that was always supposed to be the case, the mats say it outright.

I'm thinking what happens is if it's a dragon killing weapon, it doesn't adjust to fit the NP rank scale, meaning only weak dragon killing NPs could be stopped. Which makes sense.

- - - Updated - - -

From the Apo mats:

Negates all attacks of B rank and below.
When receiving regular A rank attacks, the armor's defensive rank of B will be subtracted from the attack's offensive rank of A… in other words, it will be reduced to effectively an E rank attack, but in the case of an attack by a Noble Phantasm, the armor's defensive value will rise to the rank of B+.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh wait I see what you're saying. Like it's only B+ regular attacks against NPs? I doubt that.

[You]

So I guess from those two points the arguement is
VS normal attacks = B rank normal scale
VS NPs = B+ NP scale
VS Dragon slaying stuff = B rank normal scale

but there's also line where it says it

If facing a Noble Phantasm used by a proper hero, it gains defensive values equivalent to B+.

So that would mean
VS Anti-Hero or Vengeful Spirit NP = B rank normal scale

which is fair enough

[8000]

That seems right.

[You]

yknow i had these weird conclusion for a while

what if its both

what if B value normal attack against normal attacks and change to B value NP attack against NP

just that if its B value normal attack against NP then AoF is sooooo less impressive, which i dont think is the direction theyre going

B+ normal attacks when VS NPs is not that bad.
B+ normal attacks is an 80
Conservatively that's a D rank NP
Liberally that's about an A rank NP
Depends on your N P M A T H on the C NP = A~A+ attack

[castor212]

I thought that was always supposed to be the case, the mats say it outright.


I'm thinking what happens is if it's a dragon killing weapon, it doesn't adjust to fit the NP rank scale, meaning only weak dragon killing NPs could be stopped. Which makes sense.


- - - Updated - - -


From the Apo mats:




- - - Updated - - -


Oh wait I see what you're saying. Like it's only B+ regular attacks against NPs? I doubt that.

not what i was saying

its like this

mats does not exactly specify whether B defensive value of AoF is NP value or normal value
im assuming that it changes depending on the attacks received, but nothing can make that sure

as for your question

However, this additional defensive value will not be included in the attack calculations should the enemy use a Noble Phantasm or skill that has the properties of an Anti-Dragon special attack.

anything with anti-dragon removes the +, and it becomes B defensive value
but again, we dont know for sure if its B normal defensive value or B NP defensive value

[Reign]

Wait Interfectum Dracones is C so would it even get through AoF in the first place?

[You]

Wait Interfectum Dracones is C so would it even get through AoF in the first place?

depends if Armor of Fafnir when attacked by Dragon slaying stuff is on the normal attack scale or the NP scale
see above

[castor212]

So I guess from those two points the arguement is
VS normal attacks = B rank normal scale
VS NPs = B+ NP scale
VS Dragon slaying stuff = B rank normal scale

but there's also line where it says it


So that would mean
VS Anti-Hero or Vengeful Spirit NP = B rank normal scale

which is fair enough

\

i personally am inclined to think that
B rank normal def value against normal attacks
B rank NP def value against dragon slaying/antihero/that stuffs's NP
B+ rank NP def value against normal, proper hero NPs

because the mats said このプラス分が計上されない, specifically denoting the plus itself being not counted

but thats me

[Zurvan]

Dangerous thought, but can we use N P M A T H to get an estimate of how much damage Sieg Siegfried took after Mordred NP'd him?

[You]

\

i personally am inclined to think that
B rank normal def value against normal attacks
B rank NP def value against dragon slaying/antihero/that stuffs's NP
B+ rank NP def value against normal, proper hero NPs

because the mats said このプラス分が計上されない, specifically denoting the plus itself being not counted

but thats me

something i just noticed

Aランクの通常攻撃であればAマイナスB……つまりEランク相当の打撃が与えられることになるが、宝具によ る攻撃の場合、B+分の防御力が発動する。ただし竜種特攻などの宝具、スキルがある場合はこのプラス分が計上されない。

It's B+ amount of 防御力
I do know that 防御力 is an ingame stat in Link and I think GO has it as well
But having a B+ amount of defensive power doesn't necessarily correlate to being able to block B+ NPs.

- - - Updated - - -

Dangerous thought, but can we use N P M A T H to get an estimate of how much damage Sieg Siegfried took after Mordred NP'd him?

lets stop this while we can
NP math is a bad sad set of 4 roads that's right with NP math you can get 4 or more answers to one question

[castor212]

Dangerous thought, but can we use N P M A T H to get an estimate of how much damage Sieg Siegfried took after Mordred NP'd him?

assuming the attack is of the same rank as the np rank, A+


its 100 NP value
or 120 normal value if use additive NP math
or 165 normal value if use multiplicative NP math


Is Mordred a proper hero?


if yes, then the plus kicks in
If AoF defend against NP with normal def value, in normal value thats 80 against 120 or 165
If AoF defend against NP with NP def value, in normal value thats 100 or 133 against 120 or 165


if no, then the plus doesnt kick in
If AoF defend against NP with normal def value, in normal value thats 40 against 120 or 165
If AoF defend against NP with NP def value, in normal value thats 60 or 66 against 120 or 165


and this is only conversion of C~A, and Saber said it can be C~A+
and this is without it being offset by Balmung's own beam
and this is also without taking account Balmung's A+ circular beam probably had its A+ spread in dome as opposed to CBA's A+ straight damage
there's at least 16 different outcome, i think. what is this, until dawn walkthrough?

tldr my sign, i guess

- - - Updated - - -

But having a B+ amount of defensive power doesn't necessarily correlate to being able to block B+ NPs

yeah, its even yet to take in that NP ranks doesnt always correlate to attack ranks

[You]

so the answer seems to be
we now are even less how sure of how AOF works for NPs than we were an hour ago
good stuff

[Reign]

I'll just default back to CMIV saying Ascalon can pierce any armor
Good talk

[Asunder]

I'll just default back to CMIV saying Ascalon can pierce any armor
Good talk

No limit fallacies are only for Avalon and the Power of Love™.

[8000]

Wait Interfectum Dracones is C so would it even get through AoF in the first place?

Aside from the discussion above, Interfectum Dracones does extra damage against dragons.