Badass Versus Thread

[Lily Emilio]

Wasn't Lion King also divine spirit level or something?

Or was all that goddess rhongomyniad stuff just fluff?

She is said to be a divine spirit. However the impression you get from mammoth mode Ivan is of the ancient Olympian gods aka the titans who fought Sefar in the past. Divine spirits are remnants of these prime ones so naturally the impression you get from them is different.

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This Adam uses AoG labirynth as material
Probs even stronger than Apo Adan

And the core is superior too so I'd say this Adam > Apo Adam.

[Ronove]

Ivan's bruteforce is also insane. His body when fused with the mammoth is divine spirit lvl and they compare him to the true body of Olympian gods. While his actual movement is slow, when accompanying with his lightning, he is capable of instant movement like teleportation. His lightning strikes are divine spirit lvl and that was what outdamaged Adam's regen, which ended up giving Ivan the win. He causes avalanche by just moving, a normal attack from the trunk is comparable to an anti-army NP. He is invincible and the nerf was after some time to take effect. In term of showing impressive image, it's him for me tbh.

Being fair, most of this you could say for the Lion King. Her attacks are naturally divine spirit level being what she is, and they're enough to be near fatal to Gawain even with a casual display, so anti-army level normal attacks isn't a stretch either. It'd also be supported by how Gawain thinks King Hassan is equal to her for stopping his Sun-buffed Galatine casually.

I'm probably most impressed with her showings against Ozy though. A single Dendera in Fragments took EXcalibur and Stella to overpower and it's compared to a solar flare, while another top divine spirit like Quetz's NP uses solar winds. It took 9 or 10 of those just to break LK's shields. I'd still say she has a good shot of winning.

[Lily Emilio]

Being fair, most of this you could say for the Lion King. Her attacks are naturally divine spirit level being what she is, and they're enough to be near fatal to Gawain even with a casual display, so anti-army level normal attacks isn't a stretch either. It'd also be supported by how Gawain thinks King Hassan is equal to her for stopping his Sun-buffed Galatine.

Not really. There is a huge difference here: the size. Mammoth Ivan is a gigantic creature, that's why a normal attack of the trunk is equivalent to anti-army, cuz it's too big. It's like this:

And him fighting with Adam is more impressive than Lion King fighting a servant for me. Battle between titans of mountain size >>>> servant fighting a divine spirit whose size are like ants compare to these two.

I'm probably most impressed with her showings against Ozy though. A single Dendera in Fragments took EXcalibur and Stella to overpower and it's compared to a solar flare, while another top divine spirit like Quetz's NP uses solar winds. It took 9 or 10 of those just to break LK's shields. I'd still say she has a good shot of winning.

Your examples are base on servants fighting divine spirit. Ivan's lightning nukes would do much better compare to those servants as he is of that level or higher. If it takes Ozy that many hits, I can see ivan doing it with less than half. Furthermore his durability is ridiculous, allowing to tank attacks from Adam, Musashi, Atalanta, Beowulf, Anastasia...etc without taking any damage. What caused him to lose this invincibility? It's because of the result of Salieri's music that constantly invading his mind and caused him to drop the defense. Even when Salieri is doing so he's still spamming his thunder and burns down the city to kill him and if it wasn't for Mashu blocking he would've destroyed all. But one small opening is enough for Musashi to cut off the trunk and seperate Ivan from the mammoth, allowing us to fight his normal form. It's basically the same thing happened with Lion King with the Excalibur, only that this time you require much more to take down this god cuz he is a freaking mountain.

[Ronove]

Not really. There is a huge difference here: the size. Mammoth Ivan is a gigantic creature, that's why a normal attack of the trunk is equivalent to anti-army, cuz it's too big. It's like this:

And him fighting with Adam is more impressive than Lion King fighting a servant for me. Battle between titans of mountain size >>>> servant fighting a divine spirit whose size are like ants compare to these two.

Your examples are base on servants fighting divine spirit. Ivan's lightning nukes would do much better compare to those servants as he is of that level or higher. If it takes Ozy that many hits, I can see ivan doing it with less than half. Furthermore his durability is ridiculous, allowing to tank attacks from Adam, Musashi, Atalanta, Beowulf, Anastasia...etc without taking any damage. What caused him to lose this invincibility? It's because of the result of Salieri's music that constantly invading his mind and caused him to drop the defense. Even when Salieri is doing so he's still spamming his thunder and burns down the city to kill him and if it wasn't for Mashu blocking he would've destroyed all. But one small opening is enough for Musashi to cut off the trunk and seperate Ivan from the mammoth, allowing us to fight his normal form. It's basically the same thing happened with Lion King with the Excalibur, only that this time you require much more to take down this god cuz he is a freaking mountain.

Servants, mainly top-tier ones are known to reach Divine Spirit status when going to extremes. Excalibur is mentioned to be at the level of divine spirit magecraft, Karna's Vasavi Shatki is slated to kill Gods, Ea is a no brainer and Enkidu bound the bull of heaven. On the defensive side, you have servants like Mashu and Achilles that can and have defended against attacks of that pedigree. I compared Ozzy and Quetz precisely for that reason and solar flares are actually hotter than Solar winds. Denedera's Electrib Bulb is a divine-spirit class NP.

I wouldn't doubt for a moment that Ozymandias could take out Beowulf, Musashi etc save Adam. My issue with Ivan's durability is that what's being used to test it, isn't all that stellar. Adam's greatest attribute is regeneration, I don't recall it ever showing major firepower like top-tier servants have (Excalibur-level NPs), and the same goes for the other servants in that Lostbelt.

[Lily Emilio]

Servants, mainly top-tier ones are known to reach Divine Spirit status when going to extremes. Excalibur is mentioned to be at the level of divine spirit magecraft, Karna's Vasavi Shatki is slated to kill Gods, Ea is a no brainer and Enkidu bound the bull of heaven. On the defensive side, you have servants like Mashu and Achilles that can and have defended against attacks of that pedigree. I compared Ozzy and Quetz precisely for that reason and solar flares are actually hotter than Solar winds. Denedera's Electrib Bulb is a divine-spirit class NP.

And Ivan is prime ones level. Again, divine spirit are remnants of prime ones. Ivan's lighting is already off the scale of NPs, like how Lion King's sat beam is beyond normal Rhon. You just can't compare servants to them. Just because your NP might be divine spirit class doesn't mean you can face off against a prime one level being or expect your output is the same lvl. It doesn't matter how strong your NPs can get or it has enough damage to even kill gods, if the target has invulnerability then your NPs won't do jackshit. You need to make Ivan drop his invulnerability first b4 thinking of taking the mountain down.

I wouldn't doubt for a moment that Ozymandias could take out Beowulf, Musashi etc save Adam. My issue with Ivan's durability is that what's being used to test it, isn't all that stellar. Adam's greatest attribute is regeneration, I don't recall it ever showing major firepower like top-tier servants have (Excalibur-level NPs), and the same goes for the other servants in that Lostbelt.

You do understand that Adam's regeneration is the only reason it can take some lightning right? And even then it got toasted after awhile cuz the lightning outdamage its regen. And again, Lostbelt Adam is clearly much more impressive than early stage inferior Adam in Apo. Just because Apo Adam did not show major offensive capabilities doesn't mean this Adam is the same. Again, uneven comparison.

[castor212]

I mean

Its a p big Adam
About thrice apo adam

A bigass golem punch from a golem that size would equal a p hotshit damage for offensive department from sheer mass only.

To be specifix, 10k damage every 3 turns.

[Ronove]

And Ivan is prime ones level. Again, divine spirit are remnants of prime ones. Ivan's lighting is already off the scale of NPs, like how Lion King's sat beam is beyond normal Rhon. You just can't compare servants to them. Just because your NP might be divine spirit class doesn't mean you can face off against a prime one level being or expect your output is the same lvl.

This should be relative. Tamamo with 9-tails (that's not the humanity's evils version) should have the same overall power even if she's an offshoot, because of how her tails work, and that's on-par with Stage 7 Sefar. There was also Gorgon breaking off Tiamat's horn, iirc. It's not impossible for someone of a lower class category to rank with those of higher classes, is what I mean so I don't think Ivan being as strong as prime ones is enough to give him the win.

It doesn't matter how strong your NPs can get or it has enough damage to even kill gods, if the target has invulnerability then your NPs won't do jackshit. You need to make Ivan drop his invulnerability first b4 thinking of taking the mountain down.

I think I may have been confused here. Is Ivan invincible like a status effect or is he just really, really sturdy because of the mammoth body?

You do understand that Adam's regeneration is the only reason it can take some lightning right? And even then it got toasted after awhile cuz the lightning outdamage its regen. And again, Lostbelt Adam is clearly much more impressive than early stage inferior Adam in Apo. Just because Apo Adam did not show major offensive capabilities doesn't mean this Adam is the same. Again, uneven comparison.

Not knocking Ivan's attack power, I'm questioning his durability. Adam is strong, but he has never showed anything quantifiable like Excalibur/VS/EE/Dendera. Of course, this changes depending on how you answer the question above. If Ivan's stuff is conceptual invulnerability, then yeah, I don't see how the Lion King could win.

[castor212]

we dunno if its conceptual invulnerability or not
wasnt said

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arguments can be made on both sides
but no, we dunno for sure

[Ronove]

we dunno if its conceptual invulnerability or not
wasnt said

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arguments can be made on both sides
but no, we dunno for sure

Oh okay. Either way, I'm probably considering him the stronger of the two now though since invinc is arguable. Russia stronk.

[castor212]

ye
assuming ivan got at the very least same offensive and defensive capabilities as lion king, roughly speaking
regardless of method, that size really gives him an edge

then again lion king is weird because we never actually beat her
well thematically we did but you know what i mean

[You]

They mentioned that one of the Ivan's lightning attacks = Divine spirit level attack
I wouldn't say Lion King doesn't have a chance though, or rather because she has the viewpoint of a god she should know if she can win or not just by looking at him.
In that sense, the battle is pretty much over before it begins.

[SpoonyViking]

Isn't Rhongomyniad what Arturia used to kill Vortigern, who, by that point, was basically the incarnation of Age of the Gods-Britain or something of the sort?

[castor212]

b-b-b-but badass vs

[Zurvan]

As a general rule in Badass VS, the waifu wins

[castor212]

Oh okay. Either way, I'm probably considering him the stronger of the two now though since invinc is arguable. Russia stronk.

actually this intrigued me enough that i recheck the scene
musashi commented that the opening that allows her to Ishana Daitenshou-ed Ivan is when after Mash uses Mould Camelot that Ivan "lost the lightning protection" (inazuma no mamori)

so maybe not conceptual the way the Beasts guys have OP invul that just straight out no selling specific category
but more like a magicky sorts of protection on top of his already sheer mass. instead of invul its just defup up up up on an already high def rating or something like that

(*this is just a personal conjecture)

[Lily Emilio]

This should be relative. Tamamo with 9-tails (that's not the humanity's evils version) should have the same overall power even if she's an offshoot, because of how her tails work, and that's on-par with Stage 7 Sefar. There was also Gorgon breaking off Tiamat's horn, iirc. It's not impossible for someone of a lower class category to rank with those of higher classes, is what I mean so I don't think Ivan being as strong as prime ones is enough to give him the win.

Tamamo 9 tails got the same power because is bunrei of the prime one (Golden Fox) in the first place, it's not always the case for everyone. The divine spirits that humans gave names and worship are not the prime ones. The divine spirit Tiamat is nowhere near what the prime one Tiamat is, evidence by her gaining a surge of power upon regressing back to Jurassic era. At that point she's no longer a divinity (divine spirit Tiamat) but body of god (prime one that is model for divine spirit Tiamat).

The point I'm making here is that in the lostbelt they compare him to a prime one, not divine spirit. So there is clearly a powerlevel gap being used.

I think I may have been confused here. Is Ivan invincible like a status effect or is he just really, really sturdy because of the mammoth body?

Both. The mammoth alone is extremely durable, but it has another layer of defense that is his own lightning buff, but it requires his focus to maintain. Because Salieri fucked with his mind, he lost focus, suffered some mental damage and couldn't keep it up, which led to his massive defense drop. Once his defense buff is gone Musashi was able to cut the mammoth's trunk and then destroyed his crown, separating him from the mammoth.

And I didn't state my stand on this VS btw, all I was saying all this time is listing his specs and powers that you overlooked. I personally thing him and Lion King can draw in an all out fight if she plays it safe and try to find his opening as they would just be spamming light beams and thunder at each other. But taking 1 huge thunderbolt from him might end her on the spot as she doesn't have the defense capabilities of him.

[You]

Isn't Rhongomyniad what Arturia used to kill Vortigern, who, by that point, was basically the incarnation of Age of the Gods-Britain or something of the sort?

he was just the avatar of Britian.
Think Nyx Avatar in P3

[castor212]

But Vortigern isnt a cute charming boy wearing a scarf

[SpoonyViking]

he was just the avatar of Britian.
Think Nyx Avatar in P3

Sorry, I don't know much about Persona other than it "ripping off" Stands. What exactly are the practical effects of him being the avatar of Britain? Did he "just" receive huge bonuses to his stats, did it grant him some conceptual abilities, what did it do? I think I read he turned into a dragon, is that true?

[eddyak]

Scene goes like so:

He attacks once, which kills basically everybody they've brought with them and knocks Galatine and 90% of Excalibur out of the fight, Gawain almost pisses himself, because he realises they're literally fighting the very land they exist on, but Arturia does some witty bants and goes in for the fight. He starts to transform into a dragon, Gawain watches her go up against the dragon for a while, and all the while it's growing, and he eventually gets over himself, then joins the fight, and eventually the dragon rips apart the castle like Hulk Hogan ripping up a too-small T-shirt (or like the actual Hulk outgrowing a shirt, but his moustache isn't as great so he's an inferior comparison choice), and they eventually pin its forelimbs to the ground with Ex & Gal, then Arturia stabs his heart with Rhon, and he says something along the lines of "the fuck are you idiots thinking? you actually gave her that thing as a weapon? are you insane, you've doomed us all, et cetera".